Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 3

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5548369-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-2

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

A quick Google tells me this means a person with XY (male) chromosomes, but externally appearing to have female genitalia (from birth), and undeveloped gonads.
According to the criteria of "being on the pathway to producing small gametes", i.e. sperm, people with this syndrome are bio-male, but (unless genetically tested in infancy) they have been raised and socialised as female.

I don't think it is at all relevant to this court case.

Words are offensive, apparently...especially ones that relate to the nature of Sex.

want to harass and offend.
AL you say 'purely to harass and offend'
does that at least depend on context and facts and circumstances
ED no it does not, would you like me to give you an analogy to explain it
AL no I am satisfied with your answer.

My note: lol.

Oh we are back into that's not what they really mean territory again are we?
Jolly good.

AL you say that GI,
ED sorry
AL we discussed this previously
ED I just don't understand what you mean when you say it
J intervenes, gives explanation
AL the belief that sex is not binary
ED - okay
AL can I get to the end of the sentence

My note: AL is spicy today. 🔥👨‍🚒🧯

@CriticalCondition wins a prize for the prediction that ED has absolutely zero filter!

ED no, it is not lawful, that is not the convo they are are seeking to have, they..

ED is also rephrasing the qq put to her, and launching into speeches, just like ST did.

AL you say that 'sex is binary' in the workplace, is offensive because it conflicts with your lived experienced, so do I take it that you do not think that is a lawful
expression of views
ED no, it is not lawful, that is not the convo they are are seeking to have, they want to harass and offend.
AL you say 'purely to harass and offend'
does that at least depend on context and facts and circumstances
ED no it does not, would you like me to give you an analogy to explain it
AL no I am satisfied with your answer.

😮

If sophistry is all you have...

J please wait until the end of the question,
we know that some feel strongly
AL I think what you're saying that you and
people like you have a pc of GRA
ED perhaps not me
AL you don't need to rely on belief section
of EA
ED it's an inherent characteristic
J I want to understand

Sad times!

AL is very on the ball......not providing any space for her to stray.

Imagine being stuck in a broken lift with her and bloody ST.
Think I’d pry open the doors and yeet myself down the shaft.

and use your exact words ED There is an inherent physical characteristic and a PC of beliefs AL so you're saying there's no clash of beliefs
ED there is a clash of beliefs
AL if there is a clash of beliefs, is it lawful to say that sex is not binary
ED it's a fact

My note: what's a fact Emma?

Great! it's only 10.50 and already AL has made 'GI' usable in x-exam, AND got the judge to do it, AND has shut up EDs attempts at speechifying-
ED no it does not, would you like me to give you an analogy to explain it
AL no I am satisfied with your answer.
😃

AL: it's clear that the news item described the GC movement in a way that associates it with genocide
ED that's the view of the institute
AL you are forwarding to all of your followers

Totally.

I am living proof that sex is not binary.
AL you accept that not everyone would see it that way and it is lawful to express that sex is binary
ED no I don't, it doesn't add anything to the convo, it's not the debate we are trying to have in the workplace
AL we look at 2 sides

I think it’s relevant in that she’s going to say how offensive it is to define sex in binary terms.

X posted!

I wonder if there will become an underground network of women only groups, a sort of "resistance" movement fighting back below the parapet and if they become infiltrated, shut down and set up again until enough cases have gone through the court to stop this complete madness.

I was thinking the same myself.
I am glad I retired early from the Civil Service (18 years ago) before all this madness started.

I can certainly feel symapthy for people with DSDs, but how is that relevant to Trans identifying people? Nor does it alter the fact that sex is binary for the majority? In the same way that most people are born with two arms but some have limbs missing, but it's recognised as not the norm, not a variety of normal.

ED: if they read the article carefully, they might not find it offensive

( But if they really understood they would know they were part of an evil empire intent on genocide, but they naively didn't know it)

of debate, you say lawful to express one side of debate but not the other
ED that is correct
AL and illogical, saying one side cannot speak
ED its the impact of the speech, when they say sex is binary they are saying something about my body, my body isn't what I know
it to be

Which institute? The “Lemkin Institute” which has very little actual credibility?

Very revealing sentence in all that, with regard to being an 'active member of the LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender) & Allies Network'

It’s allowed me to make lots of new friends and even improved my social life.

So we have someone who perhaps is not blessed with social skills and friendships who has increased their social worth through piggybacking on to the LGBT bandwagon. Make me doubt even more the sudden onset intersex diagnosis.