Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 2

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5546841-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-follow-on-from-chair-of-seen-is-being-sued

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

Yes it was Emma Dunn. ST’s witness and chair of a:gender (the civil service trans network that ST said he didn’t know much about (chinny reckon))

That was quite a catch up!

Claimant was sounding quite snippy and a bit like a belligerent teenager this afternoon. Managed to get quite a lot of attitude into their “ yes” and “no”answers.

Claimant probably wouldn’t appreciate the comparison but I was envisaging Kevin The Teenager and “it’s not faaaaair” etc every time there was a “yes the words say that but what the author actually means is …”. I particularly enjoyed the part where EDW is initiating trans genocide for wanting training materials to accurately state the law and encouraging trainers to review their materials for accuracy.

I also laughed when I heard the “ginormous” excel spreadsheet was two tabs, one of 250-ish lines and the other 65 lines.

The Claimants lack of self awareness and/or main character syndrome makes me extremely sympathetic to their colleagues. Such characteristics must mean the claimant is not a great person to work with. And the claimant seems to have worked themselves up into a frenzy “burn the witch” every time they see the names of EDW or AM. I did like that it was the judge who asked how the claimant saw EDWs comments in the Teams Meeting Chat of an event the claimant didn’t attend.

Oh great - usual shenanigans in the room then.

The wall of sad at Uptons trial. A random BFF supporter taking pictures at the Morrison trial.

Now two men who identify as women harassing actual women. Lovely stuff. 😞

Emma Dunn and a:gender are worth a gander.

Emma Dunn is male as well?

Hate to say it but I think NC should adhere 100% to any non-male/ non-anything pronouns and just leave as much time and space as possible for ST to enlighten us as to ST's worldview.

It said intersex in the bio.

Swyer syndrome apparently.

She has a diagnosis of Swyer syndrome, according to Google.

https://share.google/H91J210joDKHhAUjB

Naomi has recently (i.e. shortly after leaving court) posted this on X:

"Disagreeableness may be our superpower."

I WANT THAT T-SHIRT.

This is what Emma and a:gender think of us lot.

Extra prizes for who can spot Tinkerbell’s comments.

Now give us the same questions but reversed.

Emma Dunn (she/they) is the Registration Executive at HM Land Registry and chair of a:gender, the cross-government network supporting trans and intersex staff across government. She was assigned female at birth, identifies as female and has Swyer syndrome. Part of her advocacy has been aimed at obtaining legal protection and policy changes for intersex people. She classes her birth sex as intersex and herself as Ipso gender (Ipso meaning “in place of”) as her gender identity matches the sex that she was assigned at birth in place of her actual sex, which is intersex.

She has XY chromosomes and an XY tattoo on her arm.

Can i just check because my reading of this is through bits and pieces.

Was it Emma Dunn who was taking photos of Naomis laptop?

Surely if she’s one of Tinkerbell’s witnesses, she shouldn’t be in the tribunal room until after she’s given evidence (?)

Exactky - but what came first? The chicken or the egg.

Did Tinkerbell feel erased before Emma started data collection on sex realist views?

Or was he convinced of how erased he was after it was pointed out to him?

These two go hand in glove. She’s his only witness. And Emma has some very offensive views about women who believe they have a right to single sex spaces.

Different in England. Darlington nurses & all witnessed were all in the room and travelled together in some cases.

My understanding is that in England it's ok for witnesses to hear previous witnesses, because of the fact that they have already submitted written witness statements.

Here's a video of Emma Dunn talking about her DSD and about a:gender. As expected for Swyer syndrome, I guess, she sounds female (at least to me).

No, that's Scottish rules. In England, the witnesses give written statements, there may be a bit of direct examination but mainly it's cross examination by the other team's barrister.

That's why TT try to obtain and publish witness statements.

Yes it appears that someone’s phone was flashing and appeared to be taking pictures.

@CriticalCondition has confirmed it was Emma Dunn.

Someone else mentioned it was Elspeth but she wouldn’t have been disruptive toward Naomi.

The Elspeth thing was different. Earlier, the judge suspected that she was recording proceedings, and Naomi commented that given Elspeth's a government lawyer she likely understood she shouldn't do that!

Very leading questions - not at all in line with good practice for questionnaires.

I started to read the survey you attached - it begins 'We surveyed our membership ....'

so a survey of only members of a:gender?

Here's the fabulous Sarah Stuart's take on Emma:

the-lies-they-tell.org/2021/03/09/intersex-experiences-hosted-by-hm-prison-and-probation-service/

Im not sure who it was, and it's not clear from TT.

I will say for anyone who witnessed this, if it was a current civil servant the civil service code might be relevant.

Anyone seen any comments on this case on Reddit or Bluesky?