Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 2

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5546841-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-follow-on-from-chair-of-seen-is-being-sued

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

Can I ask if the breathy lady voice from last week is still being used?

Bit of a tangent for this thread, but listening to Emma talking about her Swyer syndrome, she makes a big deal about feeling closer to her father because her faulty Y chromosome comes from him. This seems a rather illogical way to feel (not that feelings are logical, so she gets to feel how she feels!) because:

• if her father had given her his X chromosome, she'd have been just as female, at least as genetically connected to her father, and without a DSD
• her Y chromosome that she did get from her father can't be exactly like all the Y chromosomes in all the cells of his body, otherwise he would have had Swyer's too! Medline (url below) suggests that most cases of Swyer's are de novo mutations in the affected person, though it can be inherited if the father has a mosaic genetic makeup.

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/swyer-syndrome/#inheritance

My bad - forgive me.

Hardly the most compelling survey! But it’s on their website and no doubt Emma will be saying Elspeth is literal death.

She’s gone to lengths to shut down her Twitter but not sure that will save her.

she/they

how does that work then?

"She has XY chromosomes and an XY tattoo on their arm" presumably.
lunacy

Daft mare.

Someone else confirmed who it was, it wasn't me.

Roll up. Roll up. Get your "Disagreeableness may be our superpower" T-shirts here.

(Beetle’s with teeth just don't look right!!)

We are in England not “transcotland”

We are also in Leeds, @Hedgehogforshort. Home of Mermaids, the city that let convicted sex offender Katie Dolatowski stay in a women's refuge for 77 days, where th ruling Labour council treated WRN disgracefully when they tried to ask that the council follow the law.

@Tallisker in fact!

Yes it was Emma Dunn. ST’s witness and chair of a:gender (the civil service trans network that ST said he didn’t know much about (chinny reckon))

I'm surprised there is only one witness for the claimant's side. I thought TRAs would be queuing up to give evidence of how harassed ST was.

On the 'The lies they tell' page linked above she is quoted as saying
"We’re not recognised medically. Doctors don’t realise that we’re a thing. Even the NHS, I have to be male or female, even though that’s not the case. Even though my Y chromosome predisposes me to conditions that typically affect men, I won’t get screening for them, because I’ve got a big old F on my [record]", which sounds weird as well - none of the info I have looked at about Swyer's says anything about those men-typical conditions. The only condition mentioned (beside infertility and need for HRT of course) is osteopenia/osteoporosis, which is hardly a male-typical disease.
Also, who diagnosed her if not a doctor?!
Sounds all a bit fishy to me...

Sorry I was talking a bout the government and the Courts, and how they are very intertwined (they all know each other) thought that was a given understanding.

Odd! I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of doctors have never heard of Swyer syndrome (or, forgot it immediately after they passed the relevant exam, having never come across a patient with it, before her). It also wouldn't surprise me if there's a lot of uncertainty about the statistics of how this condition affects people, given how rare it is: it could be that there are effects of the Y chromosome on health that are significant. but if so, it's not obvious from my google either.

Must say these TT posts suggest the whole thing has been tedious in the extreme.

I imagine the mods on Yammer must have become utterly sick of this whinging man. I would also speculate that the reason SEEN posts were not removed or moderated as often as transactivist posts was because SEEN posts were broadly rational and SEEN members very careful indeed. TRAs, on the other hand, don’t seem to be able to moderate themselves very well.

I really hope that NC will be far more succinct and will truly push to highlight his deep paranoia and complete irrationality.

He is obviously a complete liability in the workplace. Is this ET because he has now left the civil service?

https://www.uclh.nhs.uk/our-services/find-service/womens-health-1/gynaecology/differences-sex-development

I think someone should send this link to Emma if she’s struggling. It’s a specialist healthcare team for people like herself. Been around for 20 years according to the literature.

Has any of the moderated posts been published yet?

I get the impression that the spreadsheet contains details of complaints and perhaps the justification for corrective action but not the actual posts but I am not sure I can point at the evidence for this.

Seems odd that the complaints process would destroy evidence of what was actually complained about

With such "allies", who would need enemies?

Yes yes but if she acknowleged that doctors do in fact know what sawyers syndrome is then she wouldn't be a super special victim chicken would she or able to appropriate the genuine discrimination still faced by LGB ppl to make herself head of a powerful network in the CS

Being XY means there's no 'spare' to make up for any defective (mutant) recessive genes on the X. So she'll have had a raised likelihood of hæmophilia and colour blindness, for instance. Not that we screen men for them, though.

Swyer Syndrome is the most womanly DSD you could think of. Her determination to be some sort of victim is unseemly.

I also laughed when I heard the “ginormous” excel spreadsheet was two tabs, one of 250-ish lines and the other 65 lines.

Me too - thought I must have mis-read!

Re Yammer behaviour: I believe it did try to show you things in your company from groups you aren't in. I know because I left the 'gender equality' (formerly women's) group at the company I worked for in around this era, after it endorsed what I saw as some unprofessional nastiness about GC people and JK Rowling, and the algorithm continued throwing their posts at me. Guess it saw it as something I had previously read. I also remember getting a lot of pet pictures even though I was never in any pet groups, I think I must have paid too much attention to cute kittens once so I was haunted by kittens for as long as I used Yammer. If you made a group private other people wouldn't see it obviously.

Note: I left the group, I didn't go on long term sick for 6 months and try to sue my employer to get people disciplined. Not even about the kittens.

From what I remember the Y chromosome's biggest impact on medical conditions results from it not containing a lot of genes (besides SRY) - that is why men are more prone to hereditary recessive diseases linked to the X chromosome, where women are often just carriers because their other X carries a functional copy. So don't know if there is any condition directly caused by something on the Y 🤔

If anyone wants to tune in when NC starts her cross examination tomorrow just to mention that AL said he may find that he needs less than 2 hours.The judge was certainly encouraging him to cut it down if he could. So NC could be on after a mid- morning break.

Yes but you’re an actual woman getting on with it, not a man with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

That’s why you managed your notifications and cracked on with your work.