Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 2

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5546841-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-follow-on-from-chair-of-seen-is-being-sued

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

My thought exactly he was held the gun they gave him the bullets.

Thank you for the c&p today, @FarriersGirl

It might explain what he called his flatlined career progression.

I don't think she's going to have too much difficulty. Although I do imagine his hostility will go through the roof! That's going to be 'interesting'.

Thank you @FarriersGirl for C&Ping

I can see a few elephant traps in his future.

I think he has more problems than that.

Given the claimant seems to have been able to sustain a marriage, a job and successful friendships prior to his aortic aneurysm rupture and is now effectively completely different it makes you wonder what else happened.

Just PTSD would be bad enough (and completely understandable) but potentially they had a long period of time when it ruptured and during repair with not enough blood to the head.

Leaving them now not just insufferable but very vulnerable to anyone else egging them on.

I think it likely that he and the little group of bullies allies that were doing his bidding, were scraping the barrel to find "offensive" material they could complain about. They will feel utterly justified about this because they firmly believe they are on the right side of history.

I think it was @BeMoreBear mentioned on the last thread that this is about control. It absolutely is. Nick Wallis mentioned that on his blog about his witness statement, e.g. the comment about wanting to control the terms under which people interact with him.

AL - the post in question was removed and so on removal, any icons were also removed,
ST - resolves the post itself, doesn't deal with staff people who supported those opinions
AL - so if the post was removed then the like was removed
ST - the post was removed, but AM was not disciplined

This evidence is incredible, removal of the offending post and comments is not enough, you have to dig into the comments, find the names that thumbed-up and then 'insert the instrument of obedience' to ensure that they will never thought crime again (to mix my SF metaphors)

He seems to think that the disciplinary process is just there as heavy enforcement for his point of view. There are no other acceptable opinions.

If he feels the punishment is insufficient then the enforcement system itself is transphobic.

I think his barrister will interrupt endlessly, and the judge will warn her about her language and approach and be generally a knob. Although I think he’s getting a bit fed up with the depth of the 🦇 💩

I think he quite enjoys being a man tbh. I get absolutely no sense of him actually thinking of himself as a woman.

He comes across as someone who didn’t achieve much promotion and as he arrived at middle age was staring down a contininuingly very average live.

I suspect he had found himself enjoying dressing up in women’s clothes and then being able to command space beyond the domestic sphere because of became even more appealing.

Becoming an interesting person, rather than a frustrated one who has not found a way to apply his intelligence etc in a productive way (perhaps someone clever enough to coast through school and uni then continue coasting through the early stages of a career civil service then found to his surprise that success at work doesn’t just happen). Others who had applied themselves more fully had been promoted over him and he couldn’t work out it was because he was coasting which had never been an issue before.

Enter Stonewall and their ability to annoint the overlooked and the average with power they’d come to think would never be theirs and the reason for that now becomes oppression rather than coasting.

perhaps..

ST literally embodies this meme, which when I first saw it I thought was just entertaining hyperbole.

Going back to earlier thread - ok it's fine to have some online social interaction or non-work interaction, and ok it's better to have monitored interaction to keep interactions within professional boundaries.

Where it seems to go wrong is when the non-work interaction takes over. Sometimes it's people deciding their own personal interests or political agendas are more interesting than their work. Sometimes it's people deciding that their agenda should dominate the employer and all the other employees. Some employers - especially public funded ones, though not so much here - have colluded in that and shot themselves in the foot.

It's like an employee decided that winning a flamewar over declawing cats is more important than pushing DEFRA's paperwork along. And then deciding that DEFRA must take a side in the flamewar. At least DEFRA appears to have made some effort not to take sides. Though not to tell everyone to fuck off back to work cos that's probably not allowed.

Unlikely he has a degree if he entered as an AO

There are shades of Kemp in how he is handling ST. I had thought Kemp was trying to be fair by being too fair but he judged that Upton was credible which against all evidence so am worried J here will do similar.

Derail alert!🔊 But rather a sweet one, so I hope you don't mind.
Since Tinker Bell comes up quite often in posts, I thought I'd share this:
June 11th, 2026

Margaret Kerry, who through months of graceful and poignant pantomime inspired the portrayal of the Peter Pan fairy Tinker Bell that the world knows best, has died at her home in Wilmington, North Carolina. She was 97.
....
Kerry brought a record player to her audition for Davis and director Gerry Geronimi. With musical backing, she did a pantomime of making breakfast: Peering into a refrigerator, juggling eggs, closing the fridge door with her foot – “as much variety of movement as I could do in the context of a little story”, she said in a 2003 interview with historian Jim Korkis.
She got the job. The first time she stepped on to Disney’s enormous, empty soundstage, she asked Davis who he wanted her to be – ditsy like Betty Boop? Above it all, like the Queen of the Fairies?
“He said, very quietly, ‘Margaret, we want her to be you’,” Kerry recalled in an interview with author and YouTube host Jonathan Rosen.
“At that moment,” she told Parade in 2016, “Tinker Bell and I became one.”

She meant that metaphorically, she did not identify as a two-dimensional sprite for the rest of her life
Margaret Kerry obituary: American actor and inspiration for Tinker Bell in Peter Pan – The Irish Times

I think he is completely unhinged at this point, and now I'm wondering more than ever who is the Puppet Master pulling ST's strings. Because I'm getting more and more of a picture of someone (ST) who even struggles to get out of bed in the morning without his daily dose of 'affirmation'. So, what kind of person decides to fund this man's grievance treasure hunt?

It's still absolute radio silence on Reddit. Most odd.

This is where I yet again give thanks that Elon Musk made likes on posts anonymous.

To be fair he can't show proof AM liked a post after it was deleted. Post has gone so the likes have gone and he would have to had screenshot the likes. He'll probably do that next time because however this case goes - and the bias has been apparent from the start - he is so deluded he will go on making complaints.

We are in England not “transcotland” The judge would make an absolute arse of himself if he does not follow Forstarter and Higgs, he has no choice.

How he conducts the hearing is not an indication of the outcome.

There is a mild possibility (as he is retired) that he comes up with some “Big Sond” like ruling but even if he did it would not hold any water for employers as it will go to appeal.

Could someone please explain why this tribunal has come this far? Is ST really complaining about a GC group expressing its views in a similar fashion to trans groups, and getting upset because the GC group says going he didn’t like?

Is that it?
What am I missing?

When I read his witness statement it did sound very much like a (very long) Reddit rant rather than a serious witness statement.

I have always thought that he is essentially a chosen figurehead for a wider group of TRAs who have been feeding him information, and what to say, and probably funding him too.

I suspect that this is deliberate law fare rather than a standard ET claim.

I do not have any understanding of how much this sort of legal proceeding would cost.

If a single donor is paying the claimant's legal fees, approximately how much are they in for?

I’m convinced almost none of them actually want to be women, many of them clearly despise women. It is about being able to force us all to redefine the word so that we all have to pretend they are a special type of person that performs womanning better than women. Even those with a humiliation fetish want to feel superior to women. Controlling our speech is not enough for them, they want to control our private thoughts as well.