Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 2

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5546841-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-follow-on-from-chair-of-seen-is-being-sued

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

On that book I found ST's response the day before yesterday to be telling:

"- it is different. These SEEN books are directed at children, if I'd had one of those books as a child, I would have denied who I am, never been my true self."

Really? One singular book written for autistic children to learn to be okay with their bodies and how to care for themselves would have brought his entire post-hoc-ed sense of false self crashing down before it ever developed? One singular children's book would have made him accept himself as he was at the time and thereafter? If that really is the case, I would have pity for him and the reassurances he didn't get as a child.

He also calls it a SEEN book which is inaccurate (right? They just recommended it?) but ties in with his perception that the network is the root of all evil in the modern world.

Rachel Rooney was cancelled - horribly - for it, and has effectively retired from poetry writing. Huge loss - she’s very talented.

I love your X factor theory!

I also like the theory that since we are basically safe these days the "fight/flight" part of our brain doesn't know what to do with itself. No sabertooth tigers roaming and whatnot. The instinct is there but not the threat, so threats are manufactured. Which ties with Western luxury beliefs angle.

🤣 these people

Yes! As @WomanInnaWoods points put, ST said:

"- it is different. These SEEN books are directed at children, if I'd had one of those books as a child, I would have denied who I am, never been my true self”

(Note - not a SEEN book. A book published in collaboration with Transgender Trend though, which is in and of itself worth damning it, of course, despite its content.)

@TwoLoonsAndASprout "I am my body, my body is me. It's a wonderful thing, I'm sure you'll agree!"

Obviously, we must burn the witch.

He's also trying to retrofit his childhood. He didn't transition until he was a middle-aged man, and "trans" was not a thing when he was a child, so if he had seen (pardon the pun) the book as a child (and there were a few books like that around when he was a child), it wouldn't have meant anything at all to him. It certainly wouldn't have magically blinked him out of existence.

He’s rewriting his history as well, isn’t he? If he’d read that book as a child it would have ruined his life (paraphrasing). Yet he didn’t transition until 2015? His life looks pretty peachy now though (sarcasm)

Anne Fausto-Sterling is cited by orgs such as GLAAD because she claimed intersex numbers were 1.7% of the population and include
those with PCOS. It's really frustrating to see that figure mentioned so much as the stat suggested by proper scientists is 0.018%.

Ha snap Bear

Thank you to everybody posting (am holidaying with iffy wifi/phone).

Is this day 6 of ST being in the witness stand? It must be gruelling for all concerned.

Affirming men with gender dysphoria doesn’t work because it doesn’t cure. It’s a hungry beast that swallows up every reasonable accommodation and as it doesn’t satisfy it goes further and further until you end up in total female category annihilation (where speaking about biological sex is banned) and child sex abuse is celebrated (where chest feeding is concerned).

And at the end- we still have an overbearing angry and entitled man.

I felt that this ^ bears repeating.

Of course a middle aged adult would base life changing decisions on what they had read to them in a picture book age 5. We are Big Meanies to doubt him.

<mops coffee out of laptop>

Thats brilliant. I presume this terrible tome is teaching children how to make molatov cocktails and agent orange via the medium of softly coloured drawings?!

X factor theory works for me! As does the "comfort looking for a problem" theory. If you are genuinely concerned for your life, limb, property, and/or how your children will eat today, you're not going to be looking for grievances.

😄

Morning all! WFTCHTJ.

From TT:

Good morning, its 1 July and the employment tribunal hearing of Samantha Tempest v DEFRA and the Rural Payments Agency will resume this morning, reportedly at 9:30 am.

Our coverage to date, plus opening notes from all 3 parties, the witness statement of Samantha Tempest and selected documents can be found on our Substack here.
^https://open.substack.com/pub/tribunaltweets/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments?r=1gxdhb&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web^

A reminder that our work is not a verbatim account or transcript of proceedings. We make our best efforts to report what is said and do so in good faith.

We are a small group of volunteer citizen journalists. We receive no payment for our work. We accept paid subscriptions to our Substack to fund necessary expenses including travel, legal fees and digital costs.
Please consider subscribing.

Tempest (the claimant or C) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN or IP). SEEN has been granted right to intervene.

Earlier sessions have included discussions of pronouns and how the C is to be referred to. The judge has issued directions. We have copied this from
@JRLevinsLaw
X post, therefore in the public domain.

Abbreviations:
PQ – Anonymised claimant, no longer a party
ST/C – Samantha Tempest, Claimant
DEFRA/R1 – Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, first Respondent
RPA/R2 – Rural Payments Agency, second Respondent
RS – First and second Respondents

SEEN/IP – Sex Equality and Equity Network – Civil Service
EW – Elspeth Duemmer Wrigley, co-chair of SEEN
NC – Naomi Cunningham, barrister for SEEN as Intervenor
J – Employment judge SD Robertson
P1 – Panel member 1
P2 – Panel member 2
AL – Alex Line, barrister for Rs

JRL – JR Levins, solicitors for SEEN
HH – Helen Hogben, barrister for claimant
AB – Anna Bond, solicitor for claimant
AM – Andreas Mueller
GC – gender critical or sex realist views
GI – gender identity

[Derail: I’ve always been curious how the illustrator, Jessica Ahlberg (daughter of Allan and Janet Ahlberg, writer/illustrator of “Each Peach Pear Plum” among many, many other children’s classics) managed not to get tarred and feathered by association with Rachel. I must go and research that…]

Mr Tempest can be summarised as a particularly potent combination of "post hoc rationalisation" and "fundamental attribution error".

@DrBlackbird I've seen this described as "chasing the dragon"

@TwoLoonsAndASprout Think should delete that post before it inspires the loons.

From TT:

TW – transwoman, a man claiming the protected characteristic of gender assignment TM – transman, woman claiming the protected characteristic of gender assignment
INT – Intervenor
ETBB – Equal Treatment Bench Book
GRC – Gender recognition certificate
PC – Protected characteristic

GRA – PC of gender reassignment
DD – Direct discrimination
MLF – My learned friend
CA – Caroline Airs
ED – Emma Dunn
NB – Nicola Bettesworth
VE – Viva Engage
CM – Carly Manning
IAO – Information Asset Owners
NE – Natural England

OH – Occupational health
G – Grievance
GA – Grievance appeal
GI – Grievance investigation/investigator
SGI – Second grievance investigation
SGA – Second grievance appeal

We will return when the Tribunal is in session

We are WFTCHTJ
(Waiting for the conference host to join). No action yet and conflicting reports on start time.

Apologies, it is looking like a start time of 'not before 10 am'.

Nearly time for a new thread ☺️

(I've just read the MBIM reviews and couldn't find the terrorist one).

I am a bit disappointed that there was no hyperventilating/flouncing/weeeping into lacee daintee ladee hankee yesterday.
Am looking forward to reading aloud of My Body is Me and ST dissolving into puddle of goo.
I mean, surely, that's not totally impossible? 🙄

Is the NHS going to have to develop special clinics for victims of excessive eyeball rolling?

I thought the terrorist book comment was made by either Claire Vuillamy or one of her delightful friends, the ones who so successfully hounded Rachel Rooney out of writing?