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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 2

1000 replies

myladydisdainisyetliving · 29/06/2026 13:03

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5546841-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-follow-on-from-chair-of-seen-is-being-sued

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

OP posts:
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WanderingBundle · 01/07/2026 08:34

Emma Dunn a:gender first appears as Chair 2019 / 2020 - so she’s 6 years in. Not sure on governance points. But since she’s a one story pony I’m sure it’s getting very old hat.

She has locked down her Twitter but some older stuff (post Tinkerbell’s distress and grievance) shows repeated criticism of gender-critical views - I hope Elspeth kept the receipts.

I wonder that any civil servant doesn’t raise concerns about her - what she has said publically is worse than anything Elspeth said by miles. Is she not supposed to be neutral?

Cerealcomplainer · 01/07/2026 08:36

That Sheffield hospital case was very odd. Not least because the NHS agreed a fact which on the face of it was pretty unlikely to have happened. And as it was an agreed fact, everyone was stuck with it and that would also have been the case on appeal. FWS means that the case would be extremely unlikely to be decided that was today.

Pronounbegone · 01/07/2026 08:37

WanderingBundle · 01/07/2026 08:00

He said he wasn’t part of a Union. I don’t think he said he wasn’t part of a:gender.

Earlier on, possibly last week he claimed he didn't know what a:gender discuss in Yammer. Can't find the quote just now.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/07/2026 08:38

SqueakyDinosaur · 01/07/2026 08:30

But isn't that the wrong comparator? The question should be whether a man without the PC of GR would be treated in the same way, which I think he would (certainly if any FWR posters were nearby at the time).

Well quite.

WanderingBundle · 01/07/2026 08:42

Pronounbegone · 01/07/2026 08:37

Earlier on, possibly last week he claimed he didn't know what a:gender discuss in Yammer. Can't find the quote just now.

Fair that rings a bell

prh47bridge · 01/07/2026 08:44

SqueakyDinosaur · 01/07/2026 08:30

But isn't that the wrong comparator? The question should be whether a man without the PC of GR would be treated in the same way, which I think he would (certainly if any FWR posters were nearby at the time).

Before FWS, the view in many courts was that TWAW and therefore a biological woman was the correct comparator. Now, I would expect all the courts to use a man as the comparator.

rebax · 01/07/2026 08:57

prh47bridge · 01/07/2026 08:44

Before FWS, the view in many courts was that TWAW and therefore a biological woman was the correct comparator. Now, I would expect all the courts to use a man as the comparator.

Pete!

Kirschcherries · 01/07/2026 09:10

PriOn1 · 01/07/2026 07:19

There are an increasing number of MtF transactivists who now claim to be intersex. I believe fraudulently so as they don’t seem to wholly understand the DSD they claim to have. Guess there’s nothing to stop a straight ally from jumping on the same bandwagon. The lies told by transactivists are extreme and as much a feature of transactivism as the violence.

Well said. I have read blogs from transmen that claim PCOS is a DSD.

Whilst it’s difficult to say how many women have PCOS the NHS approximates 1 in 10. That is c10% of the female population. That number artificially boosts the % of people with a DSD by a significant amount.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 01/07/2026 09:19

Kirschcherries · 01/07/2026 09:10

Well said. I have read blogs from transmen that claim PCOS is a DSD.

Whilst it’s difficult to say how many women have PCOS the NHS approximates 1 in 10. That is c10% of the female population. That number artificially boosts the % of people with a DSD by a significant amount.

I bet they're positively in denial about the fact it is now PMOS and ovarian cysts are not even part of the criteria anymore as it is a multisystem condition.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 01/07/2026 09:21

rebax · 01/07/2026 08:57

Pete!

NoT aLl AnAlOgIeS are HeLpFuL

Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 2
WanderingBundle · 01/07/2026 09:23

This is just a sprawling mental health crisis of attention seeking behaviour. And now the Tribunals have to deal with this outcome.

I blame the X-factor, everyone had to have a journey and pour their heart out and now women with excess body hair are intersex. Sweet holy heaven.

WanderingBundle · 01/07/2026 09:25

Don’t know if this will pass the monitors but it made me laugh.

Caption competition:

  • The genital monitors took to their new job with rigorous attention
  • Oh look Tinkerbell is wearing an inappropriate dress again
  • Wow that’s a great phalloplasty
Sensitive content
Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 2
WomanInnaWoods · 01/07/2026 09:29

"Oh, it's a feminine penis? My mistake madam"

Justabaker · 01/07/2026 09:30

I'm so hoping that NC has everyone read (or she reads out loud) My Body is Me. And then asks ST what's wrong with it. Please please please.

Kirschcherries · 01/07/2026 09:31

@Jimmyneutronsforehead Thank you. A lot has changed in the 30+ years since I was diagnosed PMOS is a more accurate descriptor.

TheDisguiseOfReasonableness · 01/07/2026 09:37

Justabaker · 01/07/2026 09:30

I'm so hoping that NC has everyone read (or she reads out loud) My Body is Me. And then asks ST what's wrong with it. Please please please.

If the judge and panel haven’t already peaked they surely will when ST declares that while My Body is Me, for all its apparent charm, contains secret messages of social murder

SidewaysOtter · 01/07/2026 09:39

WrongKindOfFeminist · 01/07/2026 07:43

Well, increasingly people just avoid employing workers as much as possible, too. Did someone say 'high unemployment'?

Aside from the main topic at hand, I think AI will be the new outsourcing. Yes, it’s useful in some situations but relying on it goes wrong very quickly, and equally quickly arises the selling point of NOT using AI/outsourcing.

I suspect the demise of the jobs market is over exaggerated.

SidewaysOtter · 01/07/2026 09:40

TheDisguiseOfReasonableness · 01/07/2026 09:37

If the judge and panel haven’t already peaked they surely will when ST declares that while My Body is Me, for all its apparent charm, contains secret messages of social murder

I seem to have missed this off my reading list but it’s been referenced a lot of these threads - what is this book and what does it show?

MoistVonL · 01/07/2026 09:41

Hang around, Otter, because Naomi might read it to us all.

Justabaker · 01/07/2026 09:47

@SidewaysOtter

My Body is Me! is an upbeat, rhyming picture book, aimed for 3-6 year- olds, written by Rachel Rooney and illustrated by Jessica Ahlberg in consultation with Transgender Trend. It introduces children to the workings of the human body, and celebrates similarities and differences while challenging sex stereotypes. It also aims to promote a positive self-image and foster self-care skills. The text is inclusive for children with physical or sensory disabilities.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 01/07/2026 09:48

@SidewaysOtter here are some sample (horrifying, I’m sure you’ll agree) pages:

Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 2
Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 2
Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 2
Kirschcherries · 01/07/2026 09:49

I watched the read through by the author last night - it’s a charming book.

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 01/07/2026 09:51

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 01/07/2026 09:48

@SidewaysOtter here are some sample (horrifying, I’m sure you’ll agree) pages:

Agggghhhhh, my eyes .... I'm melting ....

SidewaysOtter · 01/07/2026 09:52

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 01/07/2026 09:48

@SidewaysOtter here are some sample (horrifying, I’m sure you’ll agree) pages:

So I’m guessing this is seen as wholly transphobic…

Rightsraptor · 01/07/2026 09:52

IIRC one of the Amazon reviews of My Body is Me called it a 'terrorist manual'.

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