Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 2

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5546841-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-follow-on-from-chair-of-seen-is-being-sued

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

Thanks for all the posts and commentary, all.

FWIW I remember thinking Big Alex at Sandie Peggie came across as sensible, measured, and reasonable.

And then he came out with 300 pages of THAT.

ST said that he 'looked at' both the breastfeeding and menopause groups.

I genuinely can't think why a woman would look at both. You'd either be in one group, the other or neither. Not both.

I mean, I know why he did (and like fuck was it being a 'supportive partner') but the fact this has escaped him is illustrative.

I woke up thinking about this, and thought NC might go there which she did.

He is either AGP, or on the hunt for offensive posts, or both.

But obviously he could not admit to either so was instead quite evasive.

But if he’s supporting his partner, she wouldn’t be in both at the same time either, surely?

He's so self absorbed i can't imagine him supporting anyone else in anything.

If DEFRA have any sense they will literally shut these networks down tomorrow. And tell people to bring their work self to work, and leave their whole self at home.

I suppose there could be a very very tiny number of 45 year old first times mums who are juggling breastfeeding with peri night sweats. But for a bloke who can not breastfeed and has never ovulated... Hmm what possible reason could he have for looking at those groups?

I think we all know, and its not pretty.

Emma will probably so intently focused on gurning incessantly so the 'coaching' allegation will be disproven as completly normal state for Emma that the actual evidence may pale in comparison

I feel in need of a scorching hot shower after today!

Exactly.

On the most generous reading, he's going through MENopause 🙄 and she's breastfeeding. 😬

Why would a man be looking at a breastfeeding group for his partner at his own work? Surely his partner would look at one at hers?

I mean, it's such complete, obvious bollocks. Honestly, I cannot imagine my partner looking at either groups at his work to be a 'supportive partner' '. If he did I'd be, errr🧐😬

A relative complained about their work menopause group making no mention of women and was given the "but supportive male partners..." response.

I don't know about you lit, but I'd definitely prefer a women only group for that sort of thing, supportive men or not. And definitely no larpers.

I wish NC asked who ST was supporting while frequenting those 2 groups.

He is an AGP.

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to transcribe. Really appreciate it.

Apart from the obvious, my take from this is that the public sector has money and time to waste. My money, made from my working time. Not just me obviously. Sincere apologies to anyone who’s actually doing their job which can’t be easy when surrounded by self-serving, blinkered idiots who seem to find infinite ways not to work, enabled by structures and guidelines that contort themselves to deny the bleeding obvious.
I await my burning at the stake.

I don't know if he is, he's coming across as a self-centred, troublemaking malcontent. He's a petty minded man who's focused all his attention on his petty little grievance, and blown it up into a world ending drama. He's a nobody who thinks he should be seen as a somebody.

Thanks for the tweeting, c&p ing and witty commentating, much appreciated.
Sometimes I think on FWR we can be a bit hard on the TiMs, generalising madly that they are all thin skinned, self centred, inefficient at work due to hyper focus on their special interest, willing to insert themselves into women’s social spaces for their own gratification, frequently holiday in Spain. And yet, when one is captured in the wild, he happens to be all of the above. What are the chances, eh?

Popping in to say thank you for the commentary and TT transcription!

I'm not able to follow this one closely, but so far ST is quite incomprehensible. And when you get a sentence finally untangled it turns out not to mean much anyway.

In fairness I think the ones who end up in court may not be a random sample...

Absolutely. I used to go to a breastfeeding group. If some dude was hanging around, all I would have thought is that I’m not here to provide voyeuristic potential for some creepy man. And if a man was just hanging around there for no good reason, it could only be for dodgy, creepy reasons. To deliberately make women feel horribly uncomfortable, or use women as live props to get his rocks off. That may be just me, but I doubt it.

Yes, massive thanks from me too.

I wonder if the judge and/or panel members will ever have come across a trans activist before. They've almost certainly had Stonewall or similar training (except maybe Miss Lee) and they may even now one of these trans people we are assured everyone loves.

We are used to the activist types who come here regularly and show up on reddit and/or in tribunals. The average man may never have been exposed to this level of batshittery before and more privileged women may also never have come across it.

A lot of these men are both. I won’t name names, but I’m sure we can all think of some.

This.

Maybe EDW's statement is actually an acrostic
[full disclosure: I had to google it]
and arranged in a certain way, the first letters of the lines spell out:
ST IS NOT JUST A BLOKE HE'S A WHINY SELF-CENTRED BLOKE.

Outrageous. Intolerable. She deserves all she gets.