Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #60

1000 replies

nauticant · 16/12/2025 22:37

Judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6936ce28a6fc97b81e57436a/S_Peggie_v_Fife_Health_Board__Dr_Upton.pdf

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.
Following handing down of the judgment on 8 December 2025, on 11 December 2025, it was announced by Sandie Peggie and her legal team that they would be pursuing an appeal.

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6.

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September 2025 to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 28 September 2025 to 21 November 2025
Thread 55: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5447019-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-55 19 November 2025 to 8 December 2025
Thread 56: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5456749-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-56 8 December 2025 to 9 December 2025
Thread 57: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5457132-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-57 9 December 2025 to 11 December 2025
Thread 58: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5458443-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-58 11 December 2025 to 12 December 2025
Thread 59: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5459115-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-59 12 December 2025 to 17 December 2025

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
CohensDiamondTeeth · 24/12/2025 19:05

ProfessorIDareSay · 24/12/2025 18:57

“Now an audit of all the NHS trusts in England by a group of concerned women – and shared with The Telegraph – found that not a single one had protected spaces for female patients and staff.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/0a383bbf721288e5

Oh well done @KnottyAuty and the MN working party!

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 24/12/2025 19:45

CohensDiamondTeeth · 24/12/2025 19:05

Oh well done @KnottyAuty and the MN working party!

Christmas present for all the audit vipers!

Coffeeandcataddict · 24/12/2025 20:43

ProfessorIDareSay · 24/12/2025 18:57

“Now an audit of all the NHS trusts in England by a group of concerned women – and shared with The Telegraph – found that not a single one had protected spaces for female patients and staff.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/0a383bbf721288e5

Several years ago my 89 year old mum was in the next bed to a transwoman wearing a frilly nightie who kept flashing his bits when ever he got in and out of bed.
My mum was very confused and distressed as the nurses kept telling her there were no men in the ward. We got the same response when we complained.
Obviously his wishes and dignity were far more important than an old woman who was really upset at continually being exposed to a man’s genitals.

ProfessorBinturong · 24/12/2025 20:48

ProfessorIDareSay · 24/12/2025 18:57

“Now an audit of all the NHS trusts in England by a group of concerned women – and shared with The Telegraph – found that not a single one had protected spaces for female patients and staff.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/0a383bbf721288e5

Very well done, those concerned women! And a good moment for the article, on the back of the latest Peggie coverage. I hope it gives some NHS bosses more indigestion than their xmas lunch.

guinnessguzzler · 24/12/2025 20:57

Well done wims!

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/12/2025 21:15

Well done all the auditors Flowers

SidewaysOtter · 24/12/2025 22:08

Well done the auditors! 👏👏👏

Alpacajigsaw · 24/12/2025 22:19

Coffeeandcataddict · 24/12/2025 20:43

Several years ago my 89 year old mum was in the next bed to a transwoman wearing a frilly nightie who kept flashing his bits when ever he got in and out of bed.
My mum was very confused and distressed as the nurses kept telling her there were no men in the ward. We got the same response when we complained.
Obviously his wishes and dignity were far more important than an old woman who was really upset at continually being exposed to a man’s genitals.

This is disgusting your poor mum. Gaslighting an elderly lady, how dare they.

ArabellaSaurus · 24/12/2025 22:36

Coffeeandcataddict · 24/12/2025 20:43

Several years ago my 89 year old mum was in the next bed to a transwoman wearing a frilly nightie who kept flashing his bits when ever he got in and out of bed.
My mum was very confused and distressed as the nurses kept telling her there were no men in the ward. We got the same response when we complained.
Obviously his wishes and dignity were far more important than an old woman who was really upset at continually being exposed to a man’s genitals.

Bastards, all of them. Absolute fuckers.

nebulousMoose · 24/12/2025 23:36

Boiledbeetle · 24/12/2025 17:55

As Is Christmas eve...

Inspired by A visit from St Nicholas written by Clement Clarke Moore

A VISIT FROM DR DICK

‘Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the ward
Not a patient was stirring, not even the bored.
The stockings were worn by the man I'll call Bess
In hopes they'd go well with his after work dress.

The patients were settled all drugged in their beds
While visions of presents danced in their heads.
And Sandie was bleeding, right through her clothes
Had just had a flooding, which every lass loathes.

When in to the changing room Sandie did go
I heard she was met by a man who'd never heard no.
Away back through the door was not even a choice
Tore off her upset, and her discomfort did voice.

The man stood his ground and didn't back down
Gave poor Sandie a fright, the six foot tall clown.
When she told him his presence was not the done thing
“But I’m a woman, a lady, I'm a queen not a king.”

With his reasons so creepy and frankly quite odd
I know in my gut that he’s an AGP bod.
More crap from his mouth about how he'd the right
And he whinged and he whined late into the night.

“Now Sandie. Now Sandie. I'm a woman I am
On this I do swear I'm all woman, not man.
To the top of my head, to the tip of my willy
Now take off your clothes, and stop being silly.

As sure as the sun shines in the night sky
When up is now down. Now why would I lie?”
So up with his arms, as he took off his top
With a smile on his face, when his scrub bottoms drop.

And when he was finished Sandie tried to explain
The reasons beyond him, alas ‘twas in vain.
As he walked out the door she shook like a leaf
Down she sank to the ground in instant relief.

He was dressed in his scrubs when she'd gone to get changed
And was wearing his street clothes as words were exchanged.
A man that had been in no danger at all
And could have left at the start now started to bawl.

His eyes they were wet, his demeanour sooo sad
His mission right now, to paint Sandie as bad.
His self-righteous thinking, all the havoc he'd wreak
And that bloody witch, she’d wish she'd never dare speak.

The froth and the bile that would spill from his gob
And his aim in this all - to lose Sandie her job.
He had a phone full of contemporaneous notes
That helped him keep track of his lying and gloats.

He made up his notes about mean terfy Sandie
And saved them for when they might come in handy.
A twist of the knife and a tilt of his head
Soon all would bow down once gossip had spread.

He would show them who's boss, who's cock of the walk
And he’d close down the women, they’d now not dare talk.
And after he'd spoken to a female boss
And spewed out a load of his made up old dross

He was walked to his car to ensure he was 'safe'
And sent on his way, the poor little waif!
But I heard Sandie exclaim as he drove out of sight
"Happy Tribunal you arsehole, and to being proved right."

Bloody brilliant 🪲

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/12/2025 00:47

ArabellaSaurus · 24/12/2025 22:36

Bastards, all of them. Absolute fuckers.

This.

RogueFemale · 25/12/2025 00:49

BrokenSunflowers · 24/12/2025 14:27

Acceptable - the correction of the name of “Not All Gays” as it was a clear misrecording of the name of the organisation and doesn’t impact the substance of the judgement

Whilst I agree about the correction not impacting the substance of the judgement, I am not convinced it was a simple misrecording especially as it follows the exhibited bias. And once you allow that it may not be a simple error, you must consider whether it either reflects his attitude to the evidence and misquoted as a sort of confirmation bias of that, or he set out directly to discredit them.

Agree

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 25/12/2025 08:47

Merry Terfmas to one and all!

ickky · 25/12/2025 09:23

Merry Christmas everyone.

What time today is Big Sond releasing eleventy billion more amendments? 🎅

weegielass · 25/12/2025 09:23

saw this on X and it made me chuckle

“They’re checking it once
They’re checking it twice
They’ve found 12 mistakes
It’s still not precise”

weegielass · 25/12/2025 09:29

This also made me laugh (may take a while to appear)

https://x.com/BigBillMoon/status/2003564041458069511/photo/1

Boiledbeetle · 25/12/2025 10:30

Merry Christmas.

Bet Big Sond is on his second bottle of the hard stuff by now!

<Wanders off to fridge to contemplate what to have for Christmas dinner>

Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #60
Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 25/12/2025 10:42

I know what we're having, pizza and coleslaw. All home made of course! It will be delicious and we'll probably have the same again tomorrow.

murasaki · 25/12/2025 11:16

Mery Xmas all!

NebulousSupportPostcard · 25/12/2025 13:16

The "202" error remains in the "date sent to parties" in Certificate of Correction 2 (on the judiciary.uk website)

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Peggie-v-Fife-Health-Board-and-another-Judgment-and-Certificate-of-Correction-2.pdf

But has been corrected to "2025" in Certificate of Correction 2 Final (on gov.uk website)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/694ad4b272075a1d4a508a97/4104864.2024PeggieFifeFH11.12.25corrected2final.pdf

Totallygripped · 25/12/2025 14:44

Boiledbeetle · 25/12/2025 10:30

Merry Christmas.

Bet Big Sond is on his second bottle of the hard stuff by now!

<Wanders off to fridge to contemplate what to have for Christmas dinner>

Lord knows what's happening to my Xmas lunch timing but I am sure that in Knutsford Rupert the Bear is on his walnut and clementine stocking combo. What Mrs or Mr Bear would make of the trans stuff I do not know. Or the faintly disturbing wizard?
All best wishes to us basic women everywhere.

MarieDeGournay · 25/12/2025 14:56

Thank you for the wonderful poems! Genius👏

I wonder is Big Sond a Spinal Tap fan?Wink

Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #60
Easytoconfuse · 26/12/2025 12:22

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 24/12/2025 16:03

To quote Francis Urquart

You may very well think so, I couldn’t possibly comment

Kemp has acknowledged and corrected the error so it would be hard to show any intent.
I think there are stronger and better grounds for questioning his impartiality and competence.

I think it's worse than intent. It's carelessness and dismissiveness. What 'Not All Gays' they said didn't matter enough to get their name right. To me that's worse than deadnaming and we all know how terrible that is, don't we?

Binglebong · 26/12/2025 18:43

Anyone else watching Paddington 2 and wondering if the judge's first name is Alexander?

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread