NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #53

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected].

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025

Never ending

Witnesses in the hearing with skeleton chronology:

Monday, 3 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Tuesday, 4 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Wedneday, 5 February 2025
Sandie Peggie
Maya Forstater
Darren Peggie (Sandie Peggie's husband)
Nicole Peggie (Sandie Peggie's daughter)

Thursday, 6 February 2025
a row about disclosure particularly over BMA documents
Sheila Bell (Sandie Peggie's mum)
Beth Upton

Friday, 7 February 2025
very late start, massive row over disclosure, agreed that Beth Upton would start giving evidence on Monday

Monday, 10 February 2025
Beth Upton

Tuesday, 11 February 2025
Beth Upton
collapse of public access

Wednesday, 12 February 2025
Beth Upton

Thursday, 13 February 2025
Esther Davidson

Friday, 14 February 2025
Esther Davidson

a break of many months

Wednesday, 16 July 2025
Isla Bumba

Thursday, 17 July 2025
Gillian Malone

Friday, 18 July 2025
Elspeth Pitt
Louise Curran
the omnishambles ending provided by the statement from NHS Fife

Monday, 21 July 2025
a late start seemingly with the panel and lawyers in discussions about something
Lottie Myles

Tuesday, 22 July 2025
another late start seemingly with the panel and lawyers in discussions about something
Kate Searle

Wednesday, 23 July 2025
another late start seemingly with the panel and lawyers in discussions about something
Lauren Harris
Kate Searle

Thursday, 24 July 2025
Angela Glancy
during AG's testimony there was a row over NC's entitlement to use correct-sex pronouns
Ann Hamilton

Friday, 25 July 2025
Peter Donaldson
Jim Borwick
Maggie Currer

Monday, 28 July 2025
a chaotic start with Claimant requesting new witnesses and provision of new documents
Fiona Wishart
Lindsey Nicoll

Tuesday, 29 July 2025
Maggie Currer
Emma Moore
Sandie Peggie

Closing submissions were on Monday, 1 September 2025 and Tuesday, 2 September 2025.

When I heard about SP's new legal action I laughed a lot. I imagine none of those three women ever thought they'd be held to account for their 'do it to Julia' antics.

And I imagine there are other in NHS Fife who are quite worried now in case their names get added to the especially the man who didn't even agree to come to
This tribunal but was clearly involved il to his neck

I don’t think i would have the strength of Sandie she stands for us all.

As for the weasels in the new litigation i am pretty sure they will all be having sleepless nights with knobs on, because they have already experienced the pressure and scrutiny of being a witness in a tribunal.

“the punishment is in the process” on this occasion has pleasurable connotations.

the fact that Sandie is chasing down all the arsewipes who have made
her life hell gives me some comfort that she is okay and has all the support she needs.

Yes 'the process is the punishment'. About time they had a taste of what they've been dishing out.

Reposted from the previous thread for ease of commenting.

I have finished reading the Final submission.

Truly, it is a thing of beauty.

The section on DU’s credibility with respect to the “contemporaneous” notes is meticulous.

I also want to post something that many reading may not be aware of, outlined in the images attached.

DU was asked via his legal representatives to email the native (original) file of the screenshot of the file history of the notes to his legal team on the morning of the Tribunal when the two IT experts were questioned. This would take mere minutes, and would mean the experts could determine whether the file had been interfered with.

DU’s legal representative emails back at 23:30 that night, after the experts have been questioned. This is a refusal to provide the original files because there doesn’t seem to be a need.

That is quite something, isn't it? Clearly lying, and they're just trying to brazen it out. "No need", indeed!

Thank you for the threads. I’ve been chewing over the bananarama defence . I may be missing something obvious , but I was very struck throughout the hearing by how many of the witnesses criticised SPs “manner” in the conversation with DU. I was cross that they only had DUs version of the events to go on, but I was also surprised because, even by his account , she wasn’t out of control or making a personal attack , she said to him that she felt intimidated . I wondered that NC didn’t go after them all a bit more, and ask what was wrong with it , but what do I know?
The personal attacks on SP have been so extreme and do seem to prove the harassment that she is alleging, so I’m really struggling to see how JR wanting to do more of it will help the respondents. I do understand the legal precedent side of this, but just can’t see how any reasonable person would think she went too far.

I want to read the submissions to help understand but I’m afraid I can’t find them. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Sorry to double post, but the long procession of “ burn the witch” witnesses, so concerned for poor Beth and so oblivious to any need for fairness in the investigation reminded me really strongly of the Jo Phoenix case, and it’s just not a good look for an organisation to bear down on an individual like this.

Place marked

Is it possible that the reason the senior staff were so converned about big Beth is because they knew him? Fife is small, he studied locally and his dad is at Edinburgh uni and his mother has faith connections - I wonder if there is an element of tribalism around Beth’s performance of upset? And Sandie is from the wrong side of Methil, doesn’t kow tow to the hierarchy in the correct fashion and doesn’t have the RP accent shared by those who consider themselves to be superior. I think the classicism of this case reeks.

This is an interesting BBC podcast from the viewpoint of the Herald and BBC journalists.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/scotcast/id1789080599?i=1000724795500

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/scotcast/id1789080599?i=1000724795500.

Sneaks in under the cover of darkness, despite there still being a few empty posts left on the previous thread.

Looking at NC's closing submission - DU not only wrote some dodgy contemporaneous notes but also demonstrated his character to the judge with truly contemporaneous actions during his testimony.

Only DU was witness to the notes but the judge was personally exposed to DUs testimony.

Hopefully this helps the Judge to understand SP's offence and predicament

@Seriestwo I suppose that some people might be impressed by Upton's parents' positions, but I'd be surprised if many people in Fife NHS attend the Episcopalian Church.

Even these days, much to the annoyance of Episcopalians, an Episcopalian church in a Fife town or village is often referred to as "the English church" - it's very much a minority branch of Christianity compared with others in central Scotland.

I could well see classism having a role, however - there's still a lot of snobbery towards folk from Methil.

The links to the submissions are on TT’s substack.
https://substack.com/home/post/p-168447499

For ease, I’m also posting the direct links.

NC’s Speaking Note:
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yyWHcApQ0NffSikZsLeY-YMoP_WOKN_M/mobilebasic

NC’s Closing Statement (skeleton argument, 23 pages):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18yIqWcDQeSt-eUazRr3Z9LL69tGmL9YW/view

NC’s Final Submission (167 pages)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kzAYvbhcjaJbOCtY_Tp34NkhD-2e_2Zt/view

It might be helpful if @nauticant could pin my post with the links to the top of the thread, so the links can be easily found, and, assuming further threads are required, add the links to the standard posts at the top of the new threads.

That way we can easily direct posters to the links. I think this is the third or fourth time I have posted them.

That Smurf song is my current earworm… ‘Here we go, here we go, here we go again, singing an annoying song, to drive you round the bend.’

I commend Bananarama as antidote should you need it!

Thanks for reposting this @Myrtlelion

To me the doctoring of the notes screenshots is one of the smoking guns of this case.

It shows that the patient safety allegations were made up and retrofitted, thereby proving harassment and victimisation. That DU was happy to lie at work, happy to land colleagues in the shit (made the Fife It guy look incompetent) and happy to lie in court.

The panel has to find him an unreliable witness, surely?

I agree, @KeepTalkingBeth- and the contrast between Upton’s doctored “contemporaneous” notes and court demeanour vs NHS Fife’s repeated testimony that he was “so kind” makes quite an impression, too. He was clearly not the slightest bit kind while he was making up professional misconduct accusations to bolster his case, yet his employer has cited his kindness as the reason why they were justified in going after Peggie on his behalf.

Self-character assassination in action.

Smurf song! My mind immediately springs to Smurf beer

beer beer smurfing beer you dont get drunk and it isnt dear,

Only my version was in german!

Anyway, as you were.

Loved your curtain drop for the last thread, @PachacutisBadAuntie .

Would that be the Wall of Sad that they were sitting on?

Myrlelion wow! It will be some time before I’ll be able to tackle that document. The combination of Naomi and Charlotte is quite something. I wonder whether the staff who are now being sued will be reading it?

I have a hunch that JR’s written submission won’t make it into the public domain.

It’s also of a piece with KS’s response on the stand that ‘I’m a kind person’ (sorry quote won’t be exact it’s remembered from TT).

The concept of kindness (and of being A Good Person) has been turned into Being Nice And Defending DU At All Costs so there is no actual kindness in play. And DU leads this - ‘let me just mansplain how kindness works which is by giving me everything I want all the time’. Purity spiral taken to its logical conclusion.

@NebulousDog I also doubt JR's submission will be public. The Herald say it took them several times of asking and an appeal to the judge before they were allowed to see it. And even then it was sent after submissions were done so they feel it goes against the principle of open justice.

All par for the course I'd say given Uptons reluctance to hand over his phone