"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 5

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, KD (day 1 of evidence) and BH (day 2).
Thread 2, 23-Oct to 28-Oct; BH (day 2), CH, JP, MG (day 3&4), TH, SS, ST, LL (day 4), JS, AT (day 5)
Thread 3, 28-Oct to 29-Oct, AT (day 5&6), TA (day 6&7)
Thread 4, 29-Oct to 31-Oct, TA, AM (day 7) JB (day 8)

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge Seamus Sweeney
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
SW - Sue Williams, NHS Trust HR
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, claimant
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
CH – Carly Hoy, claimant
JP – Jane Peveller, claimant
MG – Mary Anne (aka Annice) Grundy, claimant
TH – Tracy Hooper, claimant
SS – Siobhan Sinclair, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust
ST – Sharron Trevarrow, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust, former housekeeper and wellbeing officer
LL – Lisa Lockey, claimant
JP – Professor Jo Phoenix, expert witness
JS – Jane Shields, witness for the claimants
AT - Andrew Thacker, NHS trust Head of HR
TA – Tracy Atkinson, NHS trust HR.
AM – Andrew Moore, NHS Head of Workforce Experience
JB – Jillian Bailey, NHS Workforce Experience Manager

Please fill up thread 4 first!

Karen Danson, claimant, gave evidence on Wednesday 22 October 2025.
Bethany Hutchison, claimant, gave evidence on Thursday 23 October 2025.
Mr Hutchison, gave evidence on Thursday 23 October 2025. But only to confirm his witness statement.
Carly Hoy, claimant, gave evidence on Friday 24 October 2025, morning session.
Jane Peveller, claimant, gave evidence on Friday 24 October 2025, morning session.
Mary Annice Grundy, claimant, gave evidence on Friday 24 October 2025, afternoon session and then gave very brief evidence to include a correction on Monday 27 October 2025, morning session.
Tracy Hooper, claimant, gave evidence on Monday 27 October 2025, morning session.
Siobhan Sinclair gave evidence remotely on Monday 27 October 2025, morning session.
Sharron Trevarrow gave evidence remotely on Monday 27 October 2025, morning session.
Lisa Lockey, claimant, gave evidence on Monday 27 October 2025, morning session.
Jane Shields gave evidence on Tuesday 28 October 2025, morning session.
Kirsten Coutts gave evidence on Tuesday 28 October 2025, morning session.
Andrew Thacker gave evidence from Tuesday 28 October 2025, morning session, to Wednesday 29 October 2025, morning session.
Tracy Atkinson gave evidence from Wednesday 29 October 2025, afternoon session, to Thursday 30 October 2025, morning session.
Andrew Moore gave evidence on Thursday 30 October 2025, afternoon session.
Jillian Bailey gave evidence on Friday 31 October 2025, morning session.

Is anyone here yet?

Am now lol

Thanks for the new thread!

Someone again asked how someone living as a woman couldn't intend to father children.

That logic only works as long as "living as a woman" has the kind of meaning it should have using English words in their natural sense, and in context. If we are being consistent we have to accept that since "living as a woman" has no discernable correct interpretation, anything at all can be included under the umbrella of "living as a woman".

You can even live as a man as part of living as a woman, since some people who wish to be identified as woman (and are definitely alive, therefore are living "as a" woman) are definitely living men, and therefore living "as" men. That is, since living as a man is something some women do, living as a man is part of living as a woman.

Thank you everyone, I'm here till Wednesday.

You should be giving evidence, you'd do a better job

A woman recently won a case allowing her to get a grc identifying her as a man while trying to get pregnant, the most female thing you can do, so all etc are off. It's ridiculous.

I noticed that JB very early in her evidence said 'fully' living as a woman. I wish this had been explored with her.

at first i thought you said “explained by her” my reaction to that would be no thanks, reminded me of the FWS SC case where the judges thought it involved dresses and make up

And what if women have no interest in how 'fully' the man is 'living as a woman' (whatever that means) and still don't want to participate in mixed sex changing?

Everything always predicated on the man. All about the man. All the time.

I missed much of this morning. Did they say who this afternoon’s witness is?

Tracy Wainwright. Apparently a theatre manager.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trans-nurse-had-support-immediate-120344113.html

Thanks, nauticant

SC is hoping the judge will declare it POETS day. It's been a long week for him.

They haven't moved the camera to show the witness.

Camera pointing at gallery, not witness Ooops!

On the previous thread @BoiledBeetle quoted:
Can we just take a moment to remember that yesterday Andrew Moore claimed (and I paraphrase widely) the current witness was so shit hot at her job and on top of everything that he felt able to entrust the entire thing to her to sort and took everything she fed back to him as being legally and factually correct.

and said
Bet he feels a bit hoodwinked today!

It’s a male stance as old as Adam. ‘I’m blameless. It’s the woman, she deceived me.’

In this case he’s saying she led him to believe she was so competent that he relied on what she said. Not his fault.

All this discussion of bands. I feel like I'm at a boy scouts' marching convention.

Why can’t they colour-code the files instead of having so many red ones?

.

FFS …….this could be a long afternoon.

It would seem that this is at least part of the evidence for this afternoon:

Mrs Bailey said she had a meeting with one of the theatre managers, Tracy Wainwright, and theatre matron, Linda Watson, who said there had not been any issues previously.

She said: “They explained to me that Rose had recently stopped taking hormone therapy and had made it quite public with some people that she had decided to have a baby with her partner, and that Rose was sounding and looking more masculine as a result of having stopped taking the hormones, and that this had led to some staff complaining that they felt uncomfortable.

“They went into some detail about how Rose dressed, and that sometimes she would attend for work with visible stubble and I recall it being mentioned that it appeared she did not shave for several days sometimes and didn’t try to hide this with make-up or anything.

“They said that in all other ways Rose Henderson was presenting as a woman, and mentioned her name, outer clothing, pronouns, hairstyle.

“I recall them saying, ‘Rose was still Rose’.

That would be a very good idea. Is it the claimants or respondents who prepare the bundles?

My guess is they just order loads from Viking, and use a previous order.

Ask me how I know!