"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 5

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, KD (day 1 of evidence) and BH (day 2).
Thread 2, 23-Oct to 28-Oct; BH (day 2), CH, JP, MG (day 3&4), TH, SS, ST, LL (day 4), JS, AT (day 5)
Thread 3, 28-Oct to 29-Oct, AT (day 5&6), TA (day 6&7)
Thread 4, 29-Oct to 31-Oct, TA, AM (day 7) JB (day 8)

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge Seamus Sweeney
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
SW - Sue Williams, NHS Trust HR
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, claimant
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
CH – Carly Hoy, claimant
JP – Jane Peveller, claimant
MG – Mary Anne (aka Annice) Grundy, claimant
TH – Tracy Hooper, claimant
SS – Siobhan Sinclair, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust
ST – Sharron Trevarrow, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust, former housekeeper and wellbeing officer
LL – Lisa Lockey, claimant
JP – Professor Jo Phoenix, expert witness
JS – Jane Shields, witness for the claimants
AT - Andrew Thacker, NHS trust Head of HR
TA – Tracy Atkinson, NHS trust HR.
AM – Andrew Moore, NHS Head of Workforce Experience
JB – Jillian Bailey, NHS Workforce Experience Manager

Well obvs a Concern is far greater than a mere rumble, it is a Concern after all.

I'm not sure, but "upset" obviously knocks them both out of the water.

No one ever sang 'let's get ready to concern'.

TT

TW We were told she was transitioned. Or transisitioning. Not sure which was said.
NF The policy - did you manage Rose as someone who was transitioned
TW I dont understand Q
NF Let's look at the policy and it will be clearer. At 84 under responsibilities [reads re LM

and being supportive] Were u in that role
TW Yes
NF Under privacy [reads re keeping ID private or not and practicalities] Was this part of yr role w RH
TW Yes, if it's written down
NF [reads re changing IDs and need to facilitate] Was this a sitn u managed
J It's a braod Q.
NF I'm trying to be sensitive

NF I'll move on. On p90, a flow chart re transitioning process, you'll need to familiarise yrself to it. As I understand none of this was done by you
TW Not me. I beleive by the uni and matron at the time
NF U took that to be the case
TW I didnt do it
NF Student from 19-22

NF Is a part study and part practical course?
TW Yes, part of time is spent at uni. A lot of theatre time though working alongside the nurses
NF Is there a strict rhythm to work pattern?
TW Yes, alongside the shift pattern when present
NF On p887, do u recognise

these interview notes?
Yes
NF [reads re When were u 1st aware of DSU complaints? and hearing rumblings] On p890, asks re others complaining and u reply no official Cx. Was this about theatre team?
TW No. The theatre team didnt grumble

NF These are yr answers
Yes
NF I specifically asked re Cx by other teams. U say nothing official. Which team other than theatres are u referring to?
TW [long pause] At my level were a lot of grumbles about diff things. No-one has officially complained to me about Rose in CR

TW Not everyone understands transgender issues. U will always het rumblings. It's a really busy dept running 14 OTs.
NF In 2021-2 were rumblings?
TW No recollection. Jody mentioned but I dont remember
NF Do u recall ? Shields
Yes, but no awareness of complaints

Sent DH to do it

I know a few punches might have helped my temper, but didn't want to leave witness.

TW Many international staff use cubicles as they struggle in front of anyone
NF Rose had stopped hormones and looking more masc
TW We had no evidence and that;s why wanted more advice
NF U disapprove of the rumours
TW I dont but I had no evidence about the issue. Nothing factual.
NF But this is how y're presenting
SC and J: we've covered this

This is one angry woman who thinks she is utterly right.

I'm concerned that you are concerning yourself more over one concern that a rumble of concerns.

Can you arrange a meeting with random people, who will all no doubt also be concerned, to discuss my concerns about your concerns regarding the original posters concerns?

Swap ‘concerns’ on the bingo card for ‘rumblings’

AKA they refuse to be brainwashed.

I would love NC to be cross examining this witness.

Are you happy to continue TT-ing, IDareSay?
I have to go and do stuff, so signing off.

I can absolutely see her having a rant at NF if he keeps asking her questions she doesn’t want to answer.

This is absolutely gripping.

Jeez...this woman is unlikeable.

TT

TW No recollections of the anaesthetist XX or her husband
NF U had a mtg w Miss Watson, Beckett and JR on 20 Sept 23 on Teams to discuss Cx and issues re sharing the F CR w Rose
Yes
NF It was explained to Miss Bailey and others that Rose had apparently stopped hormones

TW There were rumbles about this. In my mind transitioning meant medically and I wasnt aware of RH taking hormones or not
NF JB has said that RH had publicly said had stopped hormones
TW No-one knew if this was true, but we didnt know

NF [sound poor]
TW That isnt what was said
NF Turn to p274, email y've received in July 23. Miss Smedley addresses HR or theatres. [reads re JB coming to discuss and Miss Watson says thanks. A month later is just theatres and not DSU, saying not got any further but other ppl concerned

Has TW given any advice?
Yes
NF Miss Smedley says agrees needs addressing. Another gap before she writes to all theatres saying has this been sorted. U reply on 22 Sept to say No, certain staff's views wont change w educ or awareness
TW I think so, it's a long time ago

NF U wrote this
TW Yes, I did
NF Arent u saying there's staff of yrs that dont get this
TW Its not what I said. I said dome ppl dont understand transitioning. it doesnt mean they have a problem w it
NF [rereads above] Then u say staff struggle and this member of stff isnt transitioning

TW What staff say outside...staff are struggling she's not transitioning
NF Y're RHs manager
I am
NF Y're not saying there's a rumour but because this staff isnt transitioning
TW I had no evidence but was told this
NF A lot of staff struggle w the CR

TW Many international staff use cubicles as they struggle in front of anyone
NF Rose had stopped hormones and looking more masc
TW We had no evidence and that;s why wanted more advice
NF U disapprove of the rumours
TW I dont but I had no evidence about the issue. Nothing factual.
NF But this is how y're presenting
SC and J: we've covered this

NF U camr up w ideas eg dividers and changing shifts
Yes
NF And u rejected these 3
Yes
NF U said [missed]
TW We'd had no objections in 4.5 yrs. No official Cx by 140 staff
NF But ppl did object
TW DSU staff have left by time theatre staff arrive. If Rose came late the team

wldn work and had no evidence for her to need to move when she wasnt w DSU staff. That's why I said no. They wldnt be there
NF Did u agree w JB they shld change elsewhere
TW Lots of staff go to the toilets and changing cubilces already
NF You said y'd explored other options. Did u do this
Tw [missed]
NF Wld take a building project

Her looks!! So dramatic, so very faux concerned

I am glad I am not managed by this woman, with her attitude.

I'll keep going unless someone else is keen? My post have all this afternoon's tweets in order now.

Wish I could see and hear what’s going on. I’m not on TwiX so I have to rely on you lot.

This evidence damning.

It might have helped the bread too! A good dough-pummelling is excellent for releasing the tribunal rage, I find

TW We'd had no objections in 4.5 yrs. No official Cx by 140 staff

How do they (and NHS Fife, and Leonardo, and others) not realise that staff may not want to object for fear of their jobs and for fear of ENDING UP IN A FUCKING TRIBUNAL!

You would if you were the fragrant Rose. She’s protecting him like her life depends on it!

I love a strong woman who takes no shit but I think she's put NF into the category of a posho jumped-up junior doctor who needs telling how it is on her ward.