Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal 29th September 10am

[ickky]

Hello

Don't know much about this case other than Naomi Cunningham is representing Ms Kelly.

If you want to observe send an email to

[email protected]

Subject line

Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

Ask for the link and pin to observe.

State you are a member of the public and give your full name and the email address you will use to access the tribunal.

Anyone interested?

NC questioning again now

So, L thought, if she's complaining there was a man in the ladies loos, we'll rebadge as mixed, and - voilà - problem solved? Have I got that right?

I am reading it as L interpreting MK’s complaint as only that you can’t label the toilets as SS if TIMs are using them. Solution? Label them Mixed Sex and everyone carries on as before.

🤨

Seems about right

I wish we could have a tribunal with working microphones!

furthermore..... if changed it to mixed sex use, did it meet the specifications for a 'universal' toilet as stated in Building Regs?

Me an' Keeptoiletssafe should be there whispering in the Judge's ear -
ask about health and safety! ask about building regs!😁

From TT

J Badge changed to WC in Oct 20. In terms of change to badging, did it happen at same time. [missed] Poster going up changed in Jan 25
MK yes
J This says now fully enc. A physical change? At end of grievance process was any discussion about changing to two singles?
MK [explains what she thought]

J You understood from grievance process that it would become single?
MK y
J Signage put up indication change. When did you change use
MK When sign went up it blocked access to cleaner's cupboard. [misssed]
ST Judge, if assists is all recorded in facts paragraphs.

[no more from Judge or ST]
NC You were asked yesterday re your route on first floor from old desk to secret toilet. You said could go out but not come in.
MK Used route sometimes. [expounds but missed]
NC Would you be able to see from your desk how full the atrium area would be

Maria is finished giving evidence.

Back at 12

TT 1st morning tweets

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1973670252061008359.html

Whoever is working for TT today must have excellent hearing.

I feel like I'm being tortured with all the interference

From TT

MK No. Can't see from desk.
NC You were asked re suggestion in email c SC judgment. You said you didn't think it was directed to you. How in immediate aftermath of SC felt to GC women on site.
MK [sound - missed]
NC To make completely clear, when secret toilet changed to single occupancy

J [asking c time] 15 minute break
[ends]

Cliff hanger last q from NC on TT
NC To make completely clear, when secret toilet changed to single occupancy....
My money's on 'Did they change anything except the badge on the door?'
because NC thinks of everything😃

It does come across as a ‘how d’you like them apples?’

If posting photos of key Leonardo execs is not allowed, pls report my posts and I'll accept Mumsnet's decision.

I won't leave the relevant execs out of it because their names are being mentioned and re-mentioned in the tribunal I'm observing.

I think it's relevant because the thrust of the argument is that MK had made implied threats to name the trans identified colleagues using the toilets. I think that's a smokescreen because, having researched the case I don't think there is much evidence that Leonardo particularly cares about its trans identifying staff but it isspecifically stated on its website that Leonardo UK policy is to embrace identity politics as a means of attracting younger recruits.

I am on a laptop and find that playing very quiet background music through the same device speakers masks the interference but allows the voices to come through a bit clearer.

People coming back in.

A bloke is sat in the witness seat

Maria will be literally able to breathe down his neck she's that close as she's now sat with her legal team.

From TT

This is the second morning session of Maria Kelly v Leonardo UK.

The sound from the courtroom is often very bad. We apologise for the fact that we will inevitably miss some parts.

Judge has returned

He looks like the man in the photo to me.

Edit: Confirmed when he gives his name.

Everyone is settling back in the room. An older, white male witness is seated, looing a bit forlorn, poor love.

Naomi is looking towards the court camera smiling and looking fab. (Will post this after TT starts reporting to comply with need not to live report as observer)

It is Andrew Letton

Andrew Lyton, known as Andy Lyton is now in the witness seat.

Andy Litton

I started to change my wound dressing in the break.

Then my car service people rang about why they can't fix the car and it needs to go to a main dealer. 13 minutes to tell me something that should have taken 5. So dressing remains unchanged.