Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal 29th September 10am

[ickky]

Hello

Don't know much about this case other than Naomi Cunningham is representing Ms Kelly.

If you want to observe send an email to

[email protected]

Subject line

Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

Ask for the link and pin to observe.

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Anyone interested?

All part and parcel of the ‘beeee kiiiind’ juggernaut.

I wonder if they ever considered that an easier way to ensure the TIM's identity was protected would be to OBEY THE LAW AND PROVIDE SINGLE SEX TOILETS.

Third 'single enclosed' mixed sex toilets for TIMs if they want.

Of course this would work if it wasn't the presence of unconsenting women that was really what the company was providing to these men.

FFS.

ST finished

From TT

ST Difficult time could be both for GI and GC colleagues
MK Ppl I spoke to felt they were not part of group of colleagues for whom this was difficult time.
ST Yesterday you mentioned you thought would be put on naughty step. During process you were promoted to lead
MK Not sure c timing, Not sure was during process

Not watching so thanks for the posts from those who are and for Myrtle and Ickky for TT.

It struck me, thinking about this last night, that MK hasn't mentioned and, tbh honest, can't mention anything that might relate to the horror experienced by @NebulousSupportPostcard Not necessarily the TiM she worked with. Though with at least three there's good odds that at least one has a fetish and she shouldn't have to participate in that. However, saying that, acknowledging it as a possibility even, well...! Possibly if she hadn't found a work around, with the secret squirrel toilets, so had witnessed more inappropriate behaviour she could feel safer mentioning it, rather than it being a hypothetical.

Eta apologies I may have got my posters mixed up.

Touché.

I can’t hear a bloody word now!

I think the judge is asking qs but the sound is appalling

Too many. But since the SP v FIFE case and now this, as well as FayeRC, I'm so invested in the bravery of these women standing up. I don't have much money to give but when I do I keep offering financial support to those or to the media accurately reporting the cases, and I hope these key cases empower more women.

If I knew then what I know now, and knew there was support for us, I would have fought it. My situation was pre-pandemic and pre-Forstater and I was terribly ill, pregnant, tired, in a city where I had no close circle of support, before I'd even joined mumsnet. I had no fire in my belly, except a burned oesophagus.

I look at these women in these cases with such awe at their strength.

I hope if any one of us here experiences this we know we've got eachothers backs. I love these tribunal threads because they're such a show of support.

The sound is terrible.

From TT

ST No further qs. Thank you very much.
J May need your assistance re some matters. We've heard in evidence re moving desks [missed - sound v bad] [asking c stairwells]

J In terms of f toilets [?[ , when did you stop using those toilets?
MK Would depend who was in office at time and what I was experiencing or not.

From TT

J Is your position that you used them Was there any change to that.
MK After the day I walked into the TiM yes.
J You said a number of people in office - it depended
J Accessible use toilet. Would you expect to use
MK Only recently accessible. It's about wheelchairs.

ST Difficult time could be both for GI and GC colleagues = SC ruling

Actually, ST, the only 'difficulty' for GC employees was probably restraining themselves from forming a victory conga and going around the building singing 'We are the champions'😂

Thank you MK - the accessible toilet is for disabled people who need an adapted toilet, it's not a get-out clause for Leonardo.

@Jimmyneutronsforehead

I'm so sorry you have to endure that, it is cruel.

You needed to concentrate on you and your baby's health. A protracted tribunal at that time would have been awful. Pre the Forstater Judgement, you probably would have lost any case you brought.

For every Tribunal there are probably hundreds of Women that have been unable to defend their rights. They are the tip of an iceberg.

From TT

J / ST are discussing layout and logistics of which toilets used, desk move, etc. Sound comes and goes.
MK I relied on it for quite a long time, and probably a couple of years beforehand when menstrual symptoms required. I was using that anyway. [discusses use and need over time]

From TT

J Is there any change
MK March 23 I met a male colleague in the toilets. Absolute confirmation.
J In terms of increase of use
MK General use of toilets over 18 years - place of refuge, used S Sq toilets, worked in Phase 2.
J About changes. Looking re ladies toilets. 2019 what badge

Apart from the Equality Act and who is entitled to use which toilet, Leonardo also need to brush up on building regs definition of a unisex toilet and an accessible toilet, appropriate and clear signage on toilets, and working place and health and safety regs on the number and specs of toilets provided for staff.

They seem to have been doing a lot of rebadging of existing toilet facilities..

From TT

MK F changed. Male didn't.
J Stylised image
MK yes
J In terms of accessible toilets. What badging change
MK Sign changed - end Oct - noticed it as i walked past, 2024 - Says accessible toilet, think it was a wheelchair, possible something else.
J So there was a change at some point.
MK yes

Because £££££

From TT

MK I think so.
J Before we move to secret toilet, suggestion change in physical structure. No change?
J Re secret toilet first floor.
ST Reads c signs and additional lock added
J In terms of what is agreed. Two cubicles in one space and basins - changed - came through shared space.

From TT

J Change to single use happened first?
ST Second floor changed by October 24. Claimant's floor change happened by Jan 25
J I was confused as said it was identified by a poster. A poster change or also became completely enclosed? Did it become completely enclosed by Jan 25
ST Yes
MK I think it changed badge

From TT

J Want to understand what has been agreed. On first floor poster went up and enclosed?
MK At that time it was lock on outer door.
J So cleaner couldn't access?
MK yes
J Sentence doesn't mention badging.
{ST?]Jan 24 poster went out. Single use.
MK Not for first floor

[Ppl discussing]
J What do you remember about badging on single toilet and when? To Oct 24?
MKWithin a month or two of grievance it was changed.
J You said was badged to Oct 24..
MK We agreed changes to be made by end Sept but that didn't happen

I'm trying to understand what is going on here - is it that the only refuge for women, the Secret Squirrel toilet - was rebadged as mixed sex shortly after MK's grievance was submitted, as a sort of act of spite/retribution?

It does seem spiteful