Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal 29th September 10am

[ickky]

Hello

Don't know much about this case other than Naomi Cunningham is representing Ms Kelly.

If you want to observe send an email to

[email protected]

Subject line

Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

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Anyone interested?

Is anyone able to explain to me why this situation has resulted in an employment tribunal? Thanks

@Forester1 We don't know the details but I would guess because her employer is breaking the law and continues to do so even after clarification.

It must have been terrifying when the VP said (even as a joke) that it could be a hate crime in Scotland.

I wonder where he got that idea from?

So the current arrangement, as of last week, means what once were the 'secret' toilets used only by women who wanted some privacy and dignity are now labelled mixed sex (the sign was changed to WC) and the privacy and dignity of a woman wishing to use them is dependent on a TIM locking the inner access door to the cubicles.

Can anyone see a flaw in this...

@Forester1 Ostensibly because they provided mixed sex toilets. For several years, she has asked them to provide same-sex toilets.

Their policy is that men can be women.

Since the ruling , Leonardo has continued to provide mixed-sex toilets, despite being a big company. As recently as last week, they have converted women's toilets into men's.

Her belief is that discriminates again her on the basis of sex.

They disagree.

And that, ladies, gentlemen and those that purport to be in between, is the facts of this case.

Nope. Sounds fine.

[exits to apply for a top HR job in Leonardo, the NHS, the civil service...]

I wouldn't be surprised if Leonardo were making that space the gender neutral loo for the use of anyone, and the female toilets remain female, to comply with the SC ruling.

I wonder

1. If the TiM have been told to use the men's or this neutral space and
2. If the TiM would pay a blind bit of notice and what would be the consequences for them continuing to use the women's facilities.

And bloody hell, why do we still have to deal with basic rights when we could be advancing spaces for women to express breast milk, giving men more and better paid paternity leave and other things, just as an example.

Yes, why did MK’s colleague have to express her breast milk in the toilet?

Completely wrong even if it had been biological women only, which it wasn’t.

Had work this morning so hoping to be let in after lunch

Yes, that’s straight into intimidation territory i.e. bullying.

Worked for this company under before the take over by Leonardo - and I have heard nothing has changed - but they did not pay equally and there was certiainly very much an anti any non-white male feeling.

But…rainbow lanyards, tho.

A panacea for the modern day employee. 🙄

I don't think they see it as lying. It's tactics, and now who does that remind me of? Only cats are nice, and can be dealt with quickly and simply. A couple of snips and problem solved!

I is enraging but hopefully is hitting home with the female judge who has possibly been in similar situations.

How embarassing to find themselves now eligible to wear "EVEN WORSE THAN NHSFIFE" lanyards at the Pride In Toilets Network Meetings

People starting to return to the room

Court is filling up for the next session!

Is it not a right there to have breastmilk expressing facilities in the workplace for a breastfeeding mum? At its most basic that’s a private lockable room, comfortable chair, power point for the pump, sink facilities to clean the pump parts and a fridge for the expressed milk. I’d assume a fan or air con too for comfort. I’m sure it’s a right here or an employer responsibility or something like that.

Leonardo is only calling 1 witness so they may only be here to try to save face in the press? Is Maria the only witness for the claimant?

Regulation 25 of the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 states that employers must provide a suitable place for pregnant and breastfeeding workers to rest.

A couple of weeks ago I gave a welcome talk to a big group at work, and at the end a woman was hanging around the stage. When I realised she wanted to talk to me, I went to see her and it turned out she had heavy periods and had flooded through her clothes. She was so upset, and I managed to find some other clothes and helped her clean herself, got sanitary products etc. But that can happen to any of us, and I had to take her to a disabled loo to ensure she had privacy as my work is full on TWAW

I wonder what "suitable" can be twisted to mean?

Not in full view of passing strangers, otherwise anywhere?

From TT

Good afternoon - this is the afternoon of day 2 (the first day of public hearings) in the case of Maria Kelly vs Leonardo UK at employment tribunal.

We expect the hearing to begin in a few minutes. Maria Kelly is still giving her main evidence, questioned by her barrister Naomi Cunningham.

That slight adjustment of the camera hasn't helped...

Panel is back