Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal 29th September 10am

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Hello

Don't know much about this case other than Naomi Cunningham is representing Ms Kelly.

If you want to observe send an email to

[email protected]

Subject line

Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

Ask for the link and pin to observe.

State you are a member of the public and give your full name and the email address you will use to access the tribunal.

Anyone interested?

From TT

MK - I could foresee a problem. Needed sex and sexuality defined correctly.
NC - explain exchange.
MK - keen to define as a gender network, not a women's network. Looked at the website, to see if relevant to me, didn't engage. Then I heard talk of mixed sex toilets

From TT

MK - signed up for newsletter from equalise (gender group) an A4 sheet, sharing stories on media, there was a news article on women with autism included. More autism in engineers, good for focus, planning, thinking through problems. sweeping statement of 1 in 10 with autism

From TT

MK - are women. But the article here, said lots more women on autism spectrum, but women conditioned to mask. Important story, women not getting diagnosis or support. 2 or 3 paras on women masking, not getting diagnosed. I wrote to chair of equalise to compliment

MK sounds like she’s very well informed and doing well.

Who is representing the other side? Not the annoying one from Fife who rode a horse through London?

Maybe I should email to request access so I can watch.

Love that there were secret toilets built in the building. I wonder who the toilets were actually intended for?

From TT

on article but the language was relevant, they were talking about cis women, think non-binary too. Thought it confusing and unhelpful, it was specifically about women and autism. Language made it less clear and relevant, others were confused about it. Could have been important

The sound quality is doing my head in.

Susanne Tanner for respondent

I think the secret squirrel toilets were just women's toilets that most people didn't know existed

I think the toilets are located in such a place that not many people use them.

Large buildings must have a certain number of toilets. People generally use the toilets nearest their desk etc. So toilets on the other side of the canteen where there aren't many desks will be less used.

My heart rate is in aerobic category according to my watch.
Thanks so much everyone for keeping us all updated re this.
Even though it's making me fucking fuming!

From TT

MK - and I'm not a cis woman, I'm a woman, it alienates me. It's exclusionary. Exchanged emails, thanked for feedback, but told it was imp to have that language. Said divisive, but we use cis for clarity and inclusivity, we are a gender balance group not a women's group

MK - appalled. Outed myself in that exchange, might have been put on naughty list. Had to remove myself from equalise. I'm an atheist, same on this.
NC - 15ht Ap JCC meeting descibe that meeting
MK - i had been trying to discuss whether toilet policy existed, been a year of

From TT

mk - continued requests, someone said that yes there was a policy or practice that anyone who ID'd as F could use women's loo. Not written down, this was confirmation. I raised at JCC as nobody else knew. Put myself on line at meeting, union htere. I had asked UNITE to support

Suzanne Tanner has wide experience.

From TT

MK - me, I checked their policies, but they let anyone use loo's based on gender. Assumed Unite reps wouldn't support me, they tried to get me to join, I refused saying they wouldn't help me on this. Asked for them to document the policy at the meeting, so that everyone knew

Maybe for the cleaners, on a somewhat sexist but probably accurate assumption that the majority would be women.

From TT

MK - 3 women, maybe 6 men. Saw everyone sit back like it was going to kick off. I was able to speak freely, no challenge, talked asked qu. went into details on why F need spaces. maybe made the men uncomfortable, one up from me was VP Ops. Hate crime act had just come in

If she was up for it, and I would completely understand why she might not be, I think Maria would do a splendid job if she were to have some sort of public role on this issue. She's cut from the same cloth as Maya. So articulate, thoughtful, clear.

What will Leonardo's case be? I just don't know what they will argue.

Mind you I'd have said the same about NHS Fife and they managed to drag it out

From TT

MK - in scotland. he said that might be a hate crime, might have been a joke, but i was uncomfortable he was a VP. I wanted it written down, rep said would take to Union, one of other VP's was on her laptop, think she was communicating with EDI lead as had a message at my desk

MK when I got back after meeting.
NC - explain why you raised it again.
MK - April meeting I said I had confirmation of policy, in those 2 months Rachel Buxton (?) EDI lead confirmed yes it was the policy. I made it clear it had taken ages to get this, shouldn't have to do this

From TT

NC - do the changes made solve?
MK - no. there have been diff phases since I started grievance. Has been a comm to some sites that there would be changes, but nothing to staff, they still don' tknow its on gender. The Secret loo had the F taken off and replaced with WC

They deliberately outed the secret toilets with a sign.😡

From TT

MK - the lock on the door Oct24 to the secret loo. A sign went up saying to lock the external door, which had 2 loo cubicles in so if in use, other loo is unusable. Think there are now 10 single occupancy loos on a site of 2500 people who might need them and I'm locking 2 away

Secret squirrel toilets update

It works with Google Chrome Version 140.0.7339.213 on my MacBook Pro running macOS Monterey 12.7.6

From TT

MK - standard F block is mixed sex. 10 loos for 200 women isn't OK
J - used by everyone? in terms of those using does sex matter? Number of men... (talking with ST). statement of facts changes depending on phase of changes.
ST - can discuss and find out
J - woud help

From TT

J - what did you understand numbers to be
MK - there's a spreadsheet that broke down numbers thtere in bundle.
J - you said number using the toilets...
MK - staff don't know their loos are mixed.
J - is it 10 or 200 using hte toilets.
MK - they don't know their toilets are mixed