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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal 29th September 10am

1000 replies

ickky · 25/09/2025 16:30

Hello

Don't know much about this case other than Naomi Cunningham is representing Ms Kelly.

If you want to observe send an email to

[email protected]

Subject line

Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

Ask for the link and pin to observe.

State you are a member of the public and give your full name and the email address you will use to access the tribunal.

Anyone interested?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
40
MyrtleLion · 01/10/2025 12:07

From TT

MK - person A, I asked a previous colleague not sure he was v observant - covid, lots of zoom - I said great you've got another woman on your team, he said not sure. Not v observant. I think all 3, how they move and are, lots of tells we would spot walking down the street when

Boiledbeetle · 01/10/2025 12:07

Secret squirrel toilets

Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal 29th September 10am
PrettyDamnCosmic · 01/10/2025 12:08

Unfortunately I have been trying without success to view the proceedings. In February I could access the Sandie Peggie tribunal on my iPhone but for the July & September sessions the only thing that worked was Chrome on my MacBook. Today even that doesn't work & I have tried all the other browsers I have installed without success (Firefox, Edge, Safari, Opera, Brave). It looks like I will need to rely on Tribunal Tweets.
Sad times.

CriticalCondition · 01/10/2025 12:09

She's also interesting on how men in the office were less observant because it doesn't affect them.

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 01/10/2025 12:09

Wee break…

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 01/10/2025 12:09

Boiledbeetle · 01/10/2025 12:07

Secret squirrel toilets

😂

MarieDeGournay · 01/10/2025 12:10

sassanach · 01/10/2025 11:59

I'm now in the room but have my real name on display which I didn't want and now don't know how to change it

That must feel worrying😨 But I don't think anyone can link your real name and your username, so I hope after the initial scare, you now feel OK and safe that you're still anonymous to all intents and purposes.
You're just sassanach here still, so dinnae fashSmile

PrettyDamnCosmic · 01/10/2025 12:10

sassanach · 01/10/2025 11:59

I'm now in the room but have my real name on display which I didn't want and now don't know how to change it

My understanding was that you should be entering your real name & that is what is displayed.

Boiledbeetle · 01/10/2025 12:11

Break back at 12.20 I think

ProudWomanXX · 01/10/2025 12:11

I'm so fucking angry listening to all this, yet again!

Just implement the fucking law!

Why, why WHY are Women treated so badly? (It's a rhetorical question, we all know the answer)

MyrtleLion · 01/10/2025 12:11

From TT

MK - need ot know if they are male.
NC - if someone is clearly male and IDing how easy is it to mention that at L?
MK - gender ID etc completely taboo, was surprised by colleague saying he thought he was trans, lanyards and flags, it doesn't get spoken of.

NC - had to deal with them yoursef?
MK - A no, B and C yes, before and after new job. With the JCC both approached me for supports, pension I think it was, person C as capability lead for area I would be the person to come to about the issue he had. Had a good working relationship

OP posts:
MyrtleLion · 01/10/2025 12:13

From TT

NC - next topic. Maybe a break?
J - yes - it's 10 past, back at 20 past? Let me speak to clerk. reminder you mustn't discuss the case.

[Morning session unrolled]

PrettyDamnCosmic · 01/10/2025 12:14

PrettyDamnCosmic · 01/10/2025 12:08

Unfortunately I have been trying without success to view the proceedings. In February I could access the Sandie Peggie tribunal on my iPhone but for the July & September sessions the only thing that worked was Chrome on my MacBook. Today even that doesn't work & I have tried all the other browsers I have installed without success (Firefox, Edge, Safari, Opera, Brave). It looks like I will need to rely on Tribunal Tweets.
Sad times.

Sod's law of course that as soon as I had moaned about not getting access then I am now in but they seem to be on a break.

KittyWilkinson · 01/10/2025 12:15

Thank you all, especially @MyrtleLion .
Sending you tea and cake.

wantmorenow · 01/10/2025 12:17

PrettyDamnCosmic · 01/10/2025 12:08

Unfortunately I have been trying without success to view the proceedings. In February I could access the Sandie Peggie tribunal on my iPhone but for the July & September sessions the only thing that worked was Chrome on my MacBook. Today even that doesn't work & I have tried all the other browsers I have installed without success (Firefox, Edge, Safari, Opera, Brave). It looks like I will need to rely on Tribunal Tweets.
Sad times.

It works on my phone. A Google pixel. Maybe try that too.

MarieDeGournay · 01/10/2025 12:17

PrettyDamnCosmic · 01/10/2025 12:10

My understanding was that you should be entering your real name & that is what is displayed.

I haven't signed up myself so I don't know the naming protocol.
I know anonymity is very important for some women here, and there may have been reasons for sassanach to feel upset if she felt she had 'outed' herself.
From what PrettyDamnCosmic says, I think it's just standard procedure, so
you're OK.

edited to remove those fecking random asterisks that make you look like you're swearing🙄

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 01/10/2025 12:18

That’s why i used my maiden name. My married name is very distinctive.

sassanach · 01/10/2025 12:20

I would have just entered my first name though like others seem to have done. Oh well, I don't recognise any of the other names fortunately.

DH works somewhere with a TiM and he is observant. He has observed the women seem uncomfortable around the TiM and avoid him as much as possible. He's observed the TiM does not speak, dress or act like a typical woman. He's observed there are M, F, GN and Disabled toilets although he doesn't know which toilets the TiM uses. DH says its a very woke workplace.

ArabellaSaurus · 01/10/2025 12:22

Secret toilets. Jesus wept. What have we done to women?

MyrtleLion · 01/10/2025 12:23

From TT

Day 2 morning 2 session of the employment tribunal of Maria Kelly v Leonardo UK (L).

The first session can be found here
https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1973290885690565085

The sound is a little challenging, but court plans to resume at 12:20.

ThatPithySheep · 01/10/2025 12:23

The trans identified men in my work place have been very clear they will only use the female facilities as anything else would 'out' them apparently. It is blindingly obvious to all that they are male.

My work is ignoring it, and says there are GN facilities available and they trust people to use the correct ones.

The bit that really annoys me is that if the SC judgement had gone the other way it would have been implemented that day

Keeptoiletssafe · 01/10/2025 12:25

For building regs, all toilets including unisex have to be able to be openable from the outside outwards, because so many people collapse in toilets. This safety feature has been abused by men.

Waterloo Road did a storyline about endometriosis where a girl collapsed in the girls loos. Her friends went to find her and opened the door quickly. Of course, with ceiling to floor cubicles, how would you know? How do you know if someone has a cardiac arrest (11% are on the loo), a seizure or hypo?

I have asked for loo paper before when bleeding heavily and it got passed to me under the cubicle partition gap.

Mixed sex cubicles are always private, single sex ones don’t have to be if there’s a single sex area in front of the cubicle.

A gap 15cm from floor to door can save someone’s life and prevent assaults. That means single sex toilets building regs and health and safety legislation.

Voyeurism and sexual assaults are male crimes. Voyeurism by hidden cameras is on the increase. Private mixed sex cubicles give the best opportunity for men to spy on women.

Out all day so quickly writing on my phone. There is a big decrease in health and safety when you have complete privacy. Women, children, the medical vulnerable particularly those with invisible disabilities, are most likely to be affected.

Single sex toilets with door gaps, with a single sex area in front of the cubicles so the occupant is aware who is in the vicinity and people outside the cubicles are aware if the occupant is in trouble or possibly misusing the toilet, are the best design. Thats without even getting into cleaning, ventilation, pathogen load, hygiene and fire safety.

MyrtleLion · 01/10/2025 12:26

sassanach · 01/10/2025 12:20

I would have just entered my first name though like others seem to have done. Oh well, I don't recognise any of the other names fortunately.

DH works somewhere with a TiM and he is observant. He has observed the women seem uncomfortable around the TiM and avoid him as much as possible. He's observed the TiM does not speak, dress or act like a typical woman. He's observed there are M, F, GN and Disabled toilets although he doesn't know which toilets the TiM uses. DH says its a very woke workplace.

Edited

The whole"gender neutral toilets will be outing" is ridiculous.

Firstly, we can tell! Even if they "pass" (rare) their behaviour outs them.
Secondly, lots of people use accessible toilets for various reasons (including able-bodied people using them to poo in private).
Thirdly I worked at a large company that refurbished the building and they had men, women, accessible and gender neutral toilets (self-contained with sinks etc) and noone was bothered if you used the GN toilets - also suitable for private pooing.

ThatPithySheep · 01/10/2025 12:28

@MyrtleLion I think the solution is for all the women who say they don't mind men in their loos to use the GN ones and then no-one is outed for using them.

But of course that won't happen

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