Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal 29th September 10am

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Hello

Don't know much about this case other than Naomi Cunningham is representing Ms Kelly.

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Subject line

Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

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Anyone interested?

From TT

MK - at work, I have heavy periods aware of this when visiting customers, had to be very aware bleeding through clothes etc, most of my adult life. Approaching peri, got worse, need access to toilet without male colleagues seeing if I've been bleeding etc. Changing

MK - sanitary items and getting rid of them without others seeing. More of a part of my life in the last coupld or years.
NC - culture at L, particularly m and f
MK - pleasant working env, mostly m, I'm an engineer so mostly men I deal with. something like 15% are F

MK - it's older, and society has changed, but the odd sexist comment, banter, we all know what we can say. Lots of Eng are on autistic spectrum, as a woman you have to work out what small talk works for them when you engage. not as overtly sexist as some places

From TT

MK - I've worked. Often the only woman in the meeting room or zoom call.
NC - what do you feel about floor to ceiling cubicles with sinks outside?
MK - awful, a terrible idea, might be my age, but not women... noise is an issues, dropping sanitary towels in the cubicle.
J - you

This is dire having to listen to women repeat their trauma in public to justify a basic human right.

IME she is describing exactly the conversations women have about toilets, about even trying to wee quietly if very shy.

this claimant has clearly been following the SP case as well

Re outside shared sinks - a point I don't think has been made much before. She mentions sexist comments at work re how if you raise your voice it must be your time of the month. Don't want male colleagues knowing what part of my menstrual cycle I am in.

I wish every single person who thinks mixed sex toilets are just fine should watch this. It's everything we've all been saying for YEARS.

From TT

asked baout mixed sex toilets.
MK - doesn't change the noise issue and the sinks issue is I don't want strangers there when washing blood, esp male colleagues knowing where I am in my menstrual cycle. COmments are made if you raise your voice about having period, won't help

NC -??
MK - the conversations about toilets are quiet and whispered at work, the few women I have discussed with say the same thing, peace, to cry, perimenopausal women also say refuge, a degree of dignity. One colleague had to express milk in there, there was nowhere else

It is horrible that she has to describe the minutiae of life as a woman, but if this gets published verbatim in the press, it might make some scales fall from eyes. I hope so. Even if it is uncomfortable to listen to/report. It’s life in the raw for so many of us.

Lots of Eng are on autistic spectrum, as a woman you have to work out what small talk works for them when you engage.

Same with Scientific Research Establishments, where I spent much of my working life. People who are very clever, but many are lacking in social skills generally.

From TT

MK - the few women I can discuss this with express the same need for a female only toilet.
NC - you said these are quiet and whispered. Why?
MK - GI in society and partic in the workplace scares people. Feel you cannot discuss freely, to learn or enquire. The men seem happy

You remember I said I had a flu jab booked for 11:25am? I'm back.

(Typed but not posted at 11:21. My attention was caught by the C taking about not wanting her male colleagues to know when she's having her period, and why. She is so clear, and what she says is so moving.)

I'm guessing all our anger levels have risen steadily over the past fifteen minutes or so.

Surely they saw the NHS Fife shit show?? It would be remarkable that they had missed it, to be honest??

From TT

MK - to discuss, but the women are scared of being called transphobic, worry for job, disciplined. I;ve never experienced another topic at work where collleagues can't talk freely without consequence. Had to telll someone recently that a colleague changed name, there was an

Late to the party, some people just don't appreciate that I have important things to do like following tribunals online😃!

! thank you Myrtle for TT updates, I've now got
Tribunal Tweets (@tribunaltweets) | nitter.poast.org

From TT

MK - awkward silence as she changed something on the screen and she said I don't know what to say anymore" it's an awkward situation.
NC - turn to page what is that
MK - JCC i s a joint consultative committee that L has across sites, a staff management committee to

From TT

discuss things not in scope of union. You are elected to local site JCC, there's a structure, senior management, HR, union, no of members depends on size of site. I was on JCC Edin. This survey comes from Luton, were comparing notes. I knew Luton had mixed sex toilets

From TT

MK - F toilets changed to floor to ceiling doors with shared sinks. Asked how it was going. A F colleagued had been, they have 2 floors of these, the unisex toilets are there, but women don't like to use them, pee on hte floor, so you can go there

God, men are disgusting. They pee on the floor at work???

From TT

MK - I asked a male colleague and he sent me this survey, think it was a couple of hundred people on survey monkey. He said its interesting the men are ambivalent, the females are negative. It reinforced what I thought, reassuring another site had same sitn
NC - any changes?

From TT

MK - heard one of them has been changed back, to M or F don't know, but I don't know that it was as a result of this survey.
NC - go to page. can you say with ref to plan, what facilities you habitually use.
MK -now or before i moved desk
NC - both
MK - sept 2024, used green ladies

From TT

MK - loo normally
J - before or after new job?
MK - before, desk really near loo. March 2023 still at that desk i was walking out and a trans ID male walked in. I was taken aback. I didn't say anything, just hi, realised must be a policy that staff hasn't been told not to use

From TT

MK - had just been washing off blood. Started using the secret toilets- refers to plan. Secret because tucked away near cleaner cupboard. No protection from men using them, but no males seem to know where they are, other F colleagues know. those are the loos from before I got new

God, men are disgusting. They pee on the floor at work???

I took my late DH to task about this once. He said it wasn't always easy to aim straight. I asked him what was so difficult about getting a cloth to wipe up after himself.