NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #50

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It will resume again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 47: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47 29 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 48: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48 29 July 2025 to 31 July 2025
Thread 49: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5383443-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-49 31 July 2025 to 8 August 2025

You would think that if you look at criminal trials, but actually it is the other way round in most civil trials. For closing submissions, the defendant speaks first, the claimant last. This gives the claimant, who bears the burden of proof, the final word to rebut the defendant's arguments, whereas in criminal trials we don't give the prosecution any chance to rebut the defendant's arguments. So, in a civil trial, the normal order is:

• claimant's opening
• defendant's opening
• claimant's witnesses
• defendant's witnesses
• defendant's closing submissions
• claimant's opening submissions
• judgement

However, please don't quote this as gospel for all cases. It can depend on the track in which the case is proceeding and/or the venue.

Right, I'm off to set all my alarm clocks so I don't sleep in til lunch.

Well, the day dawns breezy and rainy in Dundee by the looks of it. Good autumn weather.

I like to imagine the judge having a creaky sense of humour and rather enjoying himself. Like Humphrey Littleton hosting "I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue".

Or... Can you talk for "Just a Minute" without hesitation, repetition or any gendered pronouns? Nicola Sturgeon your subject is - Adam Bryson!

Sorry. Just having a moment before it all gets under way.

What time is kick off today?

I am at work until after lunch so hoping for some commentary

Hoping for a day free of faffing and late starts

I’ve only just seen it - it’s quite eye wateringly embarrassing 🤣 with all that navel gazing and total obsession with self, I’m surprised he has any time for actual lawyering.

I’m working but will be catching up on TT and here at lunchtime (and when I make a coffee, and nip to the loo, and in between emails). Good luck NC, SP, CE and MG. Looking forward to the Michael Foran debrief tonight.

A 10am start has been scheduled.

Let's be wary of any attempts to derail the thread. Just don't engage. 🤖

His they/them pronouns should really be me/me/me!

Putting this here because this is ultimately the reason why we are in this mess and why this trial is happening. The Scottish government has given 20 Millions of taxpayers money to GI advocacy groups:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/0e5851a9-c7a2-4030-892e-1db99b63e207?shareToken=85d219aa1c8dbe59e471547566806408

When I read your posts I now see in my brain an AI image of each one! This was an upside-down beetle askew across a bed fast asleep with 17 alarm clocks of various vintages and types surrounding her!

Helen Lewis made a good point on the recent Private Eye/page 94 podcast. Because the SNP control of Scotland was absolute, any organisation that wanted funding had to subscribe to the SNP’s dictated values.

I’m unlikely to be able to check in often as DM is here. I’m all agog to hear what happens though.
Will we get to see Translucent’s intervention? (Assuming I have remembered correctly who has made a DrU supporting intervention)

...'just as with the German army after Stalingrad, the die is cast and all they can do is slightly postpone the inevitable. The women (and men) who wouldn’t wheesht have won, and when the history books about the gender madness are written, the spring and summer of 2025 will be recorded as the time it all changed forever.'

I'm hoping the Peggie case will round off this summer's events very well.

wingsoverscotland.com/the-pillars-of-sanity/

It's incredibly depressing. The Scot gov are responsible for this entire mess, Nicola sturgeon in particular. The problem is all of the people pushing this are still in their roles, still pushing it and still working it into public sector policy. My work being an example. I feel like there needs to be more accountability not just for what's happened in NHS Fife but across the board.

Bumping this post as a very good reminder
just in case of Interruptarons

To be used in case of emergency:

Yep. The Scottish government needs to be investigated. It's been taken over by a damaging, illegal ideology, and has pissed away vast amounts of our money promulgating this misogynist, destabilising, anti-science, anti-reality cult.

It has to end, now. It's undermining all faith in government, law, education, health, the media, the arts ...

😁 And I still managed to get up late!

Morning All

Are we WFTCHTJ

Just as soon as I've put the bin out.

Yep. After obeying the instruction to join at 9.30.