NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #50

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It will resume again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 47: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47 29 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 48: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48 29 July 2025 to 31 July 2025
Thread 49: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5383443-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-49 31 July 2025 to 8 August 2025

It will resume again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

First and it's not even close : Iain M Banks (read them in publication order), if you haven't been there, wow what a treat you have in store.

Classics you might have missed : William Gibson , the first 6 Dune books (4 is a bit of a slog but 5 and 6 are a bit better). The Neverness/Requiem for Homo Sapiens Saga by David Zindell. The Hyperion saga.

More recently : Peter F Hamilton has written well over a dozen absolute doorstops. (start with Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained, if you like those there are plenty more).

Lesser known but I personally really enjoyed them : Dan Worth's 6 book Dominion saga. Miles Cameron Artifact Space and Deep Black.

Others from my recent years that I rather enjoyed. Loads of things Cory Doctorow, try Makers first (which should be free), next maybe Walkaway. Chuck Wendig's Wanderers and Wayward.

The Girl with All the Gifts (was made into a film), and sequel The Boy on the Bridge

Some handmaidens people sitting near me were hanging on his every word and clapping wildly.

Which is exactly why he/they acts as he/they do. A black hole of need for attention.

The junior women in my chambers all fawn over him too. Oh the horror of being perceived as male despite make up.
As someone old and senior enough to have been refused service at the bar in El Vino (on basis of sex and irrespective of make up), his relentless search for persecution on the basis of identity both grates and amuses.

Dear oh dear, that dance video...
Would you no be a bit embarrassed, as a professional in a position of responsibility, to have that loose in the public domain?

Possible explanations

Your (as in 'one's') idea of 'the public' is the people in your bubble, like the dweebs in your chambers and the clapping handmaidens.

Or

You believe that you are demonstrating an admirable behaviour in order to educate the actual public.

Or.

A public demonstration of 'bringing your whole self to work', which is, as we all know, a Jolly Good Thing.

Nah - be b-boy or be vogue, they don't combine well, Oscar - or maybe you just need to work more on your transitions?😁

Or just stop looking like a pillock

That’s a great list. Thank you very much @BezMills .

We’ve read some Peter Hamilton and William Gibson. I can’t believe the rate at which Peter Hamilton produces those doorstops. We must go back and check out his more recent stuff. We’ll look out the others.

I don’t know if China Mieville is your cup of tea but we can recommend The City and The City. DH is a Neal Stephenson fan.

Back to thread 44 now. I may catch up one day. ;-)

I quite liked the Armstrong and Miller pastiche. It felt affectionately done.

I enjoyed the dance video too, and I don't have a problem with a barrister who's willing to make a tit of himself in public as long as he can do his job.

But that doesn't chnage the fact that a bloke who doesn’t know what sex he is and takes offence if anyone reminds him is going to be a problem colleague.

Does anyone know how the submission days will be organised? Is there a set procedure and if so could someone explain it for me, please?

Been absent for the summer but cracking my knuckles ready for the Autumn showdown.

Each side in turn will present its oral arguments, highlighting key evidence and explaining how it meets the legal test for their claim - essentially explaining why they think they should win. This can (and, in this case, will) include arguments about how the relevant law should be interpreted. The tribunal may question them as they present their arguments, but the two sides won't call any further witnesses or question each other directly.

OH MY GOD

That is so utterly embarrassing!

And I'm all caught up!

Now just need to find my pin number for tomorrow, I've lost my post it note with it on.

Mine is on the original email with the link.

At first I need both every time, but later they autofilled. Perhaps your device remembers the web address but not the PIN.

I wonder if everyone has different PINs so that they have a check on who's using each one, perhaps in case they have more observers than they should.

Many thanks. Is there a set order as to who speaks first - claimant or respondent?

Searching old email avoided!

I've found the post it note!

I think it should be JR for Fife/Upton first, then NC for Peggie, but this is Scotland so I may be wrong.

Sorry scrabbling to catch up before tomorrow and very behind in the thread.

The patient safety allegations are also a fitness to practice issue. Because either he made up allegations that another HCP put patients in danger, and lied under oath. Or he saw another HCP put patients in danger, but didn't report that for several months. It has to be one of those pretty sure I know which, and either speaks to his fitness to practice.

Plus a doctor under oath stating that sex is a nebulous dog whistle and doesn't really exist, speaks to his fitness to practice in a profession which requires detailed knowledge of the human body.

He should be absolutely screwed whichever way you slice it, but the capture is deep and wide so it's probably another case of teflon trans.

Does each barrister get to make their oral submission uninterrupted or can we expect JR to keep butting in every time she doesn’t like something NC says?

I would have thought that it would be claimant first submitting why the claim should be upheld but you are the lawyer so I ain't going to argue against you.

Re: interrupting:

God I hope not, they've only got two days, if JR interrupted at everything she disagreed with we'd need until Christmas.

We are talking about Garden Court here….