NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #50

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It will resume again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 47: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47 29 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 48: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48 29 July 2025 to 31 July 2025
Thread 49: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5383443-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-49 31 July 2025 to 8 August 2025

I found the dance rather funny. Reminds me of the Vicar of Dibley / Darcy Bussell sketch.

And hear.

I suspect they won't, if it's a written submission, but hearing RW is very instructive.

I think the knob head from garden court chambers is just copying Robert Rhinder and failing abysmally

Is Garden Court Chambers ambivalent about Oscar's trans identity?The bio sounds really bonkers with every sentence beginning "Oscar is/was/does....", almost in the way GCs sometimes use first names repeatedly to avoid being forced to use identity-based pronouns. 😂https://gardencourtchambers.co.uk/barrister/oscar-davies/

It's only though following this case that I have learned that intervenors are a thing. I am curious to see how it will play out but,especially since this case has been adjourned twice already, I really hope they are not allowed to eat into too much NC time.

He's probably happy enough to have the entertainment and a fairly clear cut case.

Brief mention of SP by Alistair Jack:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/1d2514d5-42f4-4853-9dde-7744c106275f?shareToken=4217eea008f8687244e49e22232f29e3

Wtf - can we give him credit for recognising his white privilege? I'll take a guess he didn't grow up on some hairy council scheme.

No, it's disingenuous. Independent school - Christ's Hospital. Etc. probably.

https://archive.ph/R22sv

Archive version.

That's a good piece, but this,

The policy [gender self-identification] had been successfully introduced in Ireland a year earlier

I suspect a lot of Irish people, including posters here, would beg to differ.

Where successfully = the lanyard class riding roughshod over majority views to appease a tiny but extremely loud and aggressive minority.

Interested to know what you mean about "dying swan". I met OD in real life the other day and was not impressed.

Sorry I've now RTFT and see what you mean about dying swan! This is exactly what he was like in IRL. I saw him give a talk and he claimed to be the first non-binary barrister in the UK (how would he know?) and then said "and that's why I'm wearing eyeshadow".

Sandie's daughter has said that Sandie wont be in court next week as they are on a long-planned holiday.

Is it usual for claimant and respondents to attend court for the submissions? We know Sandie is following remotely, and she has shown her face every day so far anyway, so her commitment is evident. But what I'm also wondering is whether, under normal circumstances, the respondents would come back to court to hear submissions?

Does anyone expect Dr Update ever to return to court or show his face in public again in respect of this case?

And after the ruling is published, is it likely that the press will actively seek him out for comment. With pap photographers I mean?

The whole case has been fascinating but it's hard to imagine what the future holds or how any appeals process might work out in future, when the respondents seem to be too shame-faced/cowardly to ever recover.

Sandie won't be in court, but arrangements have been made for her to attend remotely according to her daughter's post.

Yes that's my reading, even tho' it would have been unthinkable in 1992 that woman includes bio males

Jane Russell is representing NHS / Upton in relation to this particular case. I wonder if Lucent might make wider submissions about the lawnmower generally?

Yes I'm sure. Must be stressful to be in such a high profile case

I’m a time traveller from thread 43. I’ve passed through the celery era and reached the book recommendations.

@BezMills, you described yourself as someone who started with Asimov and likes James SA Corey, Adrian Tchaikovsky and Cixin Liu. All well known and enjoyed in our household. Do you have any further recommendations? We’re always on the lookout for new authors.

Also as an immigrant from Edinburgh to Fife eleven years ago I’ve loved your Fifer comments. For the laughs and the reality. Thank you.

How did you refrain from snorting with laughter?!

Ah yes; the celery days are a distant memory! I have some free ‘leccy this afternoon so I am moving onto roasting a Mumsnet chicken and doing something as yet undecided with a lot of blackcurrants.

I suspect that TWAW charities and legal folx have been getting it in the neck from their parishes because it hadn‘t dawned on them to step out of their echo chambers to see what the hateful women were having to take to court.

It will be interesting to hear how their arguments have advanced (or not, as the case may be).

The fees on the clock must be quite something by now.

Leigh Day… another once respectable organisation now fallen into the looking glass world of trans rights / MRAs. RMW so believes that JR did a poor job and wants to show her how it ought to have been done.

Oscar ‘DS’ Davies says "I was the first barrister to come out publicly as non-binary, so I do lots of advocacy around transgender and non-binary rights. This work was informed by the variety of gender theory modules I did in my final year at King’s.

I despair. Despite being a member of the academy, its universities and bloody gender studies that have so much to answer to for the constant expansion of this madness.

Good toes.

Naughty toes.

Sunday papers links - Herald piece covering FWS reply to that shocking interview with Rebecca Don Kennedy last week, and their letter itself.

https://archive.is/QayXL

https://archive.is/CSTGb

And Mandy Rhodes clearly at the end of her tether in Holyrood magazine.

https://www.holyrood.com/editors-column/view,the-sandie-peggie-case-has-revealed-the-cowardice-at-the-heart-of-the-nhs

I actually thought he'd injured himself at first and had a plaster on his face as the eyeshadow went all the way across his temples and under the lights it looked beige like a plaster. Then I saw he had it on the other side too. Then he made the non-binary = eyeshadow comment. I had to do a lot of polite inward eye-rolling. Some handmaidens people sitting near me were hanging on his every word and clapping wildly.