NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #50

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It will resume again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 47: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47 29 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 48: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48 29 July 2025 to 31 July 2025
Thread 49: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5383443-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-49 31 July 2025 to 8 August 2025

Ooh! I didn't apply last time but would love to get access this time round. Can someone remind me of the case reference you have to use in the subject line? The link in Nauticant's intro isn't working - I did try!

There's also a Wiki:

https://pleasant-green.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Series

Mythos is terrific.

Also terrific is the email I received confirming that my credentials for the ET would still be good for the final part in September.

This is the title [email protected] is currently using:

4104864/2024 Peggie v Fife Health Board & Other

Also note that in addition to
a) the case reference,
you should also specify:
b) in what capacity the applicant is attending e.g. Member of the public, Tribunal Tweets, second interested parties or professional purposes;
c) the full name of the applicant; and
d) the email address of the applicant which will be used to join the remote hearing

Great, thank you! Have emailed, saying add me to any waitlist if there are no spaces, and added a smarmy "Thank you for all you are doing to enable open justice" at the end. Fingers crossed!

Can someone tell me what happens on the 1st and 2nd? I know each side has to make submissions. What are submissions? And I’d assumed they were going to be written, but sounds like they will be verbal?

Submissions is basically the counsel for each side setting out their case for the panel to consider. It allows each side to sum up the points scored in evidence, the legal position, precedents etc.

After that, the panel will reconvene to make a decision and issue a judgment. IMU it's normally the judge who drafts it, with input from the lay members.

Sometimes it's a neat encapsulation of what's gone before, with additional bits to bring out the stuff where for months posters have been going "but why hasn't NC said so-and-so!", and sometimes it's less of that and more going through and discussing legal precedents.

I too just had a mail message confirming that my remote login credentials remain the same for 1st & 2nd September. The message also asked to respond if I no longer require remote access.

Also, I suspect she'd have difficulty in finding one.

I’m not going to request remote access as I cannot guarantee being available so will be relying on this thread and TT. I’m trying to prepare myself for the second hand embarrassment of whatever bollocks JR comes out with in defence of Fife and Upton.

@SidewaysOtter thank you for the prompt - mine was lurking in my junk folder.

Me too - very efficient 👍

My Trust still have their “inclusive” policy up on the intranet with some guff about how wonderfully inclusive they are. It’s like a big fuck you to all the female patients and staff.

I think that all these "inclusive" policies will vanish like dew after sunrise once the final EHRC is ratified.

I don't think they will. I think we will have to chase them down, one by one, and push and push to get them altered against foot-dragging and wriggling and avoidance. The resistance to the law is extraordinary.

I’m hoping that the commercial orgs (virgin active today) that have taken legal advice and decided to follow the law will eventually be followed by the NHS. I’m just not holding my breath.

Thanks! I think I will be able to observe on 1st and 2nd so might apply if that’s so. And report back here, obvs.

Goodness, it will be September in no time.

I wish that was true but I strongly suspect that this is so deeply entrenched in the NHS and other parts of the public sector it is going to take years and many court cases.

I agree
It feels like this is just the beginning after the book ban aswell

We will see more resistance as an extinction burst effect until they (and their insurers) finally wake up me thinks.

At least it'll keep us entertained because we know will win.

I do think we are in for something of a bumpy time in healthcare. Whilst we know that the lawyers will eventually prevail on policy, as others have said, the culture of Transwomen rule ok is so deeply embedded that we will not be able to trust that single sex changing rooms, wards and toilets will only be used by their intended patrons any time soon.

At my uni I’ve seen an ‘inclusive healthcare’ module being rolled out to medical students. All about vulnerable trans. It’ll be another generation of doctors trained to believe in this ideology. People who want to become doctors are immersed in a bekind culture so it will carry on with doctors not thinking they’re doing the right thing.