NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #42

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

Oh absolutely. The spinny skirt will make it absolutely and completely impossible for anyone to spot he's a bloke - a sort of trans version of the invisibility cloak, as distributed via the Ministry of Sad Times.

They have already wasted 15 minutes and counting on this, get on with it.

I have skimmed the tweets from today but haven’t been able to soak it all in. Overall what’s the feeling about the evidence today? Does it change anything about the case or is everything still quite ambiguous? I can’t make out, what if anything, the tribunal thought.

If they stopped the waffle they could be half done by now

JR wants the original timetable. Of course she does. Because NC only gets 40 mins to X exam.
Fortunately J does not agree. Will see how they go today...

That must be a stackable offence for doctors too, for the same reasons. If anything, more so, because they have greater responsibility.

my inference (as a person who has to spend quite a lot of time getting to the bottom of software weirdnesses) would be that it’s an unusual occurrence for him to be at a loss to find an explanation.

NC I object to being limited to 45 mins despite the timetable as matters change. J Having conferred w my colleagues is not to time limit a witness as we dont yet know what the evidence will be. We'll make a decision after hearing Chief

From TT

NC Our position is that we should have MC's evidence in chief and cross on Tues and continue to Thurs
JR I would prefer to continue as planned or at least start w x exam
J Either way witness wld be part heard
JR Or u cld limit?
J I could say 30 mins chief and 45 for cross
NC I object to being limited to 45 mins despite the timetable as matters change.
J Having conferred w my colleagues is not to time limit a witness as we dont yet know what the evidence will be. We'll make a decision after hearing Chief

Fifer : sae JR his a choice. Get on wi it, or run the clock doon. Which maks mair sense for her purposes, we'll see hoo fast she comes oot the gate.

I wonder if that is NC is taking JR’s interruptions into account.

Can we PLEASE get it all happening the week AFTER next? I'm having surgery on Wednesday if the Dr strikes don't see it cancelled and I'd like to follow it all while I'm lying in bed recuperating / use it as a pain distraction technique by sending my ire elsewhere... (hence the name ButtSurgery).

Thanks for asking, Naomi. ❤️

the meaning of contemporaneous seems to mean something different to Dr Upton

I think it made DrU look v unreliable.

@Firealarms Due to substandard examination of DU's phone notes, there is inconsistencies about when exactly the notes were edited, casting doubt on his evidence.

There is a hilarious thread on Trans Reddit atm where one trans thinks he has been clocked by another one, and is all sad times about that.

And he is being reassured by many other transes that only trans people can clock other trans people who "pass", because cis people are idiots who don't notice stuff like that. The level of self-delusion is weird.

JR Witness returns on Tues. Submission on Tues and mine on Weds?
J Possibly [swears in witness] I take evidence down by hand so please go slowly
JR What's your full name.
MC Been at Fife since March 2010. I'm deputy clinical lead in ED

If tomorrow's Daily Record headline isn't 'Liar Liar Big Girls Pants on Fire' then I'm going to be furious.

Of course it is the women who do not consent that must be forced to submit.

From the Herald blog:

2:16pm
We're waiting for legal teams to sort out issues regarding with witnesses.
A reminder that earlier on, Jane Russell suggested that Jim Borthwick, the independent IT expert, was tasked with "undermining" Dr Upton's evidence.
It was suggested that he wasn't coming to the tribunal as an expert witness, rather as a partisan.
Glasgow University legal expert Michael Foran said Ms Russell's comments were "absolutely extraordinary".
2:09pm
In the afternoon session, we will hear from Dr Maggie Currer, a consultant in emergency medicine at NHS Fife.
We will heard about an email Dr Currer sent to Melvin Carew, Dr Kate Searle, Esther Davidson, Louise Curran and Lauren Harris.
The email has the subject 'Protected characteristic incident' and was sent on January 5, 2024 at 10:21am. It will be a crucial part of this afternoon's evidence.
The Herald obtained the full transcript of the email from the court's evidence bundle.
It states: "Dear all,
"As discussed, the "need to know" group for this is small. However, to make sure discussions are not repeated any everyone knows where we are, and who knows what, I thought I would update now and any further updates can be emailed to this group.
"Sandie has been suspended pending investigation. The lead for the investigation has yet to be determined, but will likely be Jamie Doyle or Angie Shepherd.
"Esther cannot do it as she has been involved in the discussion with Sandie previously.
"Sandie has also been referred to the NMC (Nursing and Midwifery Council).
"This information must not be shared outwith anyone in this group. It is likely that the band six nurses will be made aware, as Sandie may contact one of them, but Esther and Louise are waiting for confirmation that is ok.
"Esther and I updated Beth yesterday and reiterated that the behaviour was unacceptable.
"Beth knows that Sandie is suspended as a neutral action until the investigation is completed and that they will not encounter each other at work.
"She is aware that she will be interviewed as part of the investigation process and she can bring someone with her for support to that interview.
"Melvin and Kate, I have offered that one of us can be that person if she wishes.
"She does not need to do anything in terms of statements, but I have suggested that she makes/keeps some notes as there may be a delay before the investigation/interview occurs.
"Beth said that she was grateful for the support she has been offered and we have offered the department's thanks for coming forward to allow us to deal with the issue for the benefit of all.
"Please let the group here know of any updates/further conversations to avoid the risk of foot and mouth syndrome.
"Best wishes,
"Maggie."

I have a very strong suspicion that DU's phone submissions are bogey as all fuck and the fakery not particularly well done. Speccie Loddie spotted it from orbit.

Done with the collusion or very convenient lack of oversight of Forensic Background.

It’s like they think they’re a completely different species than the rest of us “cis” folks.

I can clearly remember during one of his snappier and know-it-all-voiced parts of his evidence he said, "....that's what contemporaneous means" 😂 and it looks as if it's not been that at all.

He meant ContempToraneous.
!!

Oh shocker sandie said it's not possible to change sex.

MC My role breaks down to clin assessment of patients, supervision of juniors, and non-clin work eg referral letters, interacting w other specialities. And a large amount of teaching. Also critical incident review and some responsibility for oversight of dept and developing.

That's a lot, isn't it?