NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #42

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

I need to lie back for a cigarette now

I’ve never heard that before 😂

I'd never heard of Google keep before but I've just found it on my phone. It looks quite good (not that I'll be stalking people and writing creepy notes)

From TT

JR - 1674 - you disputed these were contempor... headed 25th dec, wording outside says added .>
JB - those comments added on that date yes
JR - and other comments added bit in shading,
JB - yes
JR - 3 mins later, fast type-r
JB - yes
JR - bit in shading all added 12:54 25th dec

JR - 7 mins later, so contemporaneous
JB - yes
JR - all parts that date added within minutes?
JB - yes
JR - no more

CE - you were asked re meeting with you and DU. Can you help with why cancelled?
JB - issues with mobile, I asked for details of type of handset so i could buy

Fifer : new level o respect for Speccie Loddie unlocked. He's awa tae gan up carfone hoorhoose tae buy a mobile jist tae dae this job. "Aye nae bother Dr Upton, ah'll just awa n buy the same handset and we'll be cookin on gas in hauf a day" Can ye imagine?

In fairness, I think JR rallied towards the end, and put a couple of dents in JB's infallibility..

You might be overlooking the fact that Upton and Fife are in this together, if one goes down they take the other with them. It’s been demonstrated repeatedly that there’s something very strange going on at that hospital, why would so many senior staff crash and burn their credibility and careers for a junior doctor? It doesn’t make any sense.

Did CE complete that reexamination point. It was about JB wanting to the model of Upton's phone but I didn't really get where the story was supposed to go.

I wonder why...

Or indeed OJ

It's been a very satisfying morning session!

'Dr Upton and The Wall of Sad' by Kate Searle

A wonderful trans friendly fantasy alternative to Harry Potter*

(* Includes no exclamation marks)

Oh the good doctor Currer this afternoon. She's the one that allegedly set up the secret email group isn't she...

Well that has blown DU's notes out of the water.

Time for lunch

Back at 2 pm

So if DU lied about his "contemporaneous notes" then it can be inferred he has lied about other stuff as well. Who are we expected to believe - him or SP who was a nurse for 30 years with no issues until he turned up on the scene?

Maggie "need-to-know" Currer up next at 2pm

NC asks for 1.5 hours cross exam (prev 45 min estimate)

I’m not sure I can handle any more revelations. I need some lunch.

I took from that exchange that the meeting was cancelled as he’d not been given the specific details to allow him to try & replicate the documents before the meeting. It sounds like it’s part of his prep, and not being able to do that left him not as prepared as he wanted to be?

I’m guessing but I can’t think of another explanation.

NC letting her know this isn’t a friendly chat.

Anyone remember the Love and Treats crowdfund?

Hi Folks,
First, I want to say a huge thank you to everyone for your kindness and generosity. The whole experience has been incredibly distressing and knowing there are people out there who support me and my community means the world to me. While this has been a huge personal struggle, I think it’s also important to acknowledge the wider context the case exists in and the potential for its effects to impact many in the trans community and beyond. I feel we should seize any chance to demonstrate that we’re here, we are loved, and we’re not going anywhere.
Both my wife and I have been blown away by the support shown by all of you and have carefully considered how best to use the funds raised through this thoughtful gesture. We believe it’s important, given our position, to share that kindness with others. With that in mind, we intend to divide the money roughly into two, using half to cover our practical costs related to the tribunal and surrounding experience (e.g. counselling, loss of earnings for my wife, travel and accommodation) and the other half we intend to split amongst several local charities and community groups working to support vulnerable people.
We must not forget that the rights we do have have been hard fought for and we must continue to fight for those rights and for the rights of others. We must remember that we know ourselves better than others can ever know us and nothing can change who we know ourselves to be.
With love and solidarity,
Beth and Zoë x

My guess is the counselling he's going to need after this shitshow is going to cost far more than £2903.

Are you loved Beth? Are you really?? (apart from Kate obviously, she loves you up to the moon and back)

Im not sure if that went well or not i will say JR had her best couple of hours so far i reckon.. and by best i mean she seemed vaguely competent!

TT's 2nd part of the mornings Tweets

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1948688797303988470.html

From TT

JB - issues with mobile, I asked for details of type of handset so i could buy
JB - install google keep and try out notes and do a forensic analysis to see how notes work on that phone.

CE - why need to do that before examination of DU phone

JB - being thorough, to help me find evidence, fragments, deleted items etc preparation

Fifer : see, thon is whit someone with an ACTUAL FORENSIC BACKGROON wid dae. No Mr Big Suit 'oh I can do this yes sir I have a background in forensics actually'.

CE - without prep what could yo have done at the meeting
JB - would make it more difficult, at that point we had no agreement to extracting all data, or just Keep app, if I'd done prep Id have known where keep type data stored for a proper examination of DU phone
CE - 1659 - look at scsh box 19, framework for ucap uip, you see edited Aug 30th 2023, version history for that note produced
JB - no, only version hist was for weird incident, would expect them all to be produced in fairness
CE - what do you mean by fairness
JB - lets me reproduce, it's DU's work, it has to be reproduced, can't do it witout
CE - any other data which is not accompanied by other data that would help you
JB - everything from DU re creation date of Aug 23, no version history, screenshots embedded could do with e-versions would tell you when image created, date and time, would be helpful.

J - you can go. Dr Currer?

JR - yes this afternoon, estimate 30 mins

NC - we will finishi this afternoon

J - longer than 45
NC - yes, maybe 1 1/2

J - to 4. Return at 2o'clock. Checks new pages produced

Fifer : Speccie Loddie, tak a bow. Straight intae first place Topp Witness.

Can someone explain exactly what all that boiled down to? I think I understand that the contemporaneous notes have been altered, in one case to add SP's name (which may just have meant he didn't know her name before). And some notes he said were contemporaneous weren't (what was the gap?). Anything else?

I'm reminded of the lack of recording meetings throughout.

The teams meeting with glancey. The teams meeting with IT.

It all comes down to 'you can't prove this or that happened because nothing was recorded'

Let's not record anything here so there won't be any evidence that can fuck us up..