NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #34

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-sil
ence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33

I agree and would even advise that if you have posted details to delete them. These are public spaces and it is very easy to look up your posts and find out information about a poster.

I feel Naomi is weaving her spiders web again

Not that I'm aware of - and if so only by elderly people.

Oh, they always do this. They don't seem to realise that by saying things like this, they're actually insulting the transwomen they claim to care so much about. I'm 5ft nothing, petite, and pretty feminine looking, and I've been told I look more like a transwoman than these 6 ft, clearly male, blokes more than once. Pure cope.

Excellent!

@Greyskybluesky I know, I know. To make matters more confusing I've now started thinking about TT as cricketers.

Based on typing speed, NC would have to be fast-medium at least but with a decent swing and understanding of the ball and stage of play.

Less sure about JC. Obviously background is irrelevant, but she would no doubt be from quite a posh cricketing background.

Yeah, they do that a lot, I've seen it said on there about JK Rowling, Maya Forstater and Helen Joyce over the years.

Basically, they think any woman over the age of about 35 doesn't look like a woman. Think it gives away the ages of most of them to be honest.

Because being a woman is about looking pretty, don’t you know

Now the dirt is being dished.

A bit of a hostile witness this one!

They can't force SP to settle. If her backer is willing to take the risk of possibly having to pay some of Fife's costs, SP can refuse all offers to settle in order to get a judgement. I agree with @nauticant that it is likely SP and her backers want the tribunal to make a decision, especially since it now seems certain it will be in her favour (and, if it isn't, the appeal should be easy).

The whole 'she said, she said' is utterly ridiculous and shows how they are trying so hard to modify language.
When two actual women have a disagreement, it's always referred to as a 'he said, she said' thing. Never she said, she said

I was told never learn to type because I would be condemned to low paid admin roles forever, but once I saw that computing was a thing (in the early 1990s), I learned rapidly. It’s a great skill to have, particularly because I can type very fast and make almost contemporaneous notes.

Mind you, AI transcription is making that redundant now,

- as I said at that time there was no real evidence, only s/he said s/he said. Still Qs about NMC code - will expand further

I see what you did there, TT transcriber😉

From the examination by JR, is her case going to be that even though the first investigation (that definitely didn't happen) was an utter mess and completely biased, that once CM got involved everything was scrupulous and fair? And from that point the unreasonableness was on the part of SP?

From TT

Naomi Cunningham (NC) will be cross-examining Charlotte Myles (CM), Clinical Services Manager at NHS Fife, Kirkcaldy.
NC: Will start with Qs about decision to revoke the suspension. Your 1st involvement was late fEB, asked to review suspension?
CM: Yes
NC: [ref] Here is Gillian Malone saying she is meeting service manager tomorrow, asking her to meet SP - then you had meeting with GM?
CM: Yes
NC: Met SP 7/3, you said you hadn't any particular docs, to approach with open mind?
CM: Yes correct
NC: [ref] this is letter from you 28/3 to SP telling her risk assessment says return to work with diff shift pattern from DU shd be explored. You mention assemessment of risk - you made the assessment during 7/3 mtg and said, propose to revoke end of that day?
CM Yes
NC: You said it was a rush bcs keen to get SP back to work? Is it correct to say decision was pretty much made then?
CM: No not really - as I said at that time there was no real evidence, only s/he said s/he said. Still Qs about NMC code - will expand further -
CM: When I told dept SP was returning, some staff not happy.
NC: Who?
CM: ED, LC, KS [+another]
NC: How did they express?
CM: Phone conv - ED and LC on speakerphone, said it was the wrong decision, I said, it was my decision -
J: [asks for slow-down, to take notes

Haud it the noo hen, Big Sond needs tae get this notit doon.

Yes, this witness is Fife’s attempt they did follow proper processes.

Ooh having a pop at Kate Searle...interesting... Wow.

Saw her on Reporting Scotland. Would guess at 50s. ( sorry CM if you are actually 35😳)

CM: When I told dept SP was returning, some staff not happy.
NC: Who?
CM: ED, LC, KS [+another]

This is why SP may find it difficult to return.

Kate Serle seemed to really have it in for Peggie.

Please may I make unreserved apologies to Charlotte Lottie Myles for having been looking forward to today for completely the wrong reasons. I will willingly attend conscious bias against managers training as a reparation!

She is on fire, in a good way. Can't wait for the BBC headlines. Predict it will be "Tribunal moves on with no further reference to entirely understandable NHSFife Statement of 18th July"

And you want that decision to come from a case where you estimate your chance of success as being unusually high rather than from a case that's more slightly over 50/50 in favour of your side.

Holy shit! Sorry for swearing but the way Lottie Myles has called out Kate Searle's behaviour here is extraordinary - making it clear she told Searle that not escalating these supposed patient safety concerns at the time would make Searle liable