NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #34

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-sil
ence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33

Its just so sick 😡

I'm still logged in to the tribunal room. There is someone typing away at break neck speed but I can only see their hands. Is it Naomi?

That guy is an absolute loon. He got kicked out the police for stalking and harrassing.

We always had a night manager. In all the hospitals I've worked in. Sometimes they weren't on site but there was always a point of contact.

It really is.

And it's a testament to how successful transactivation has been, that it isn't frighteningly self evident to absolutely everybody.

From TT:

CM Originally concern that limited support on floor at w/ends but I said wasnt concerns re patients and no cross over w DU. We agreed was a sensible solution.
JR Did u have a view about no band 6 being there?

It also appears there would be no band 6 at weekends which seems very surprising. The other thing is that iirc going back to Sandie's testimony early in the proceedings it sounded like it was common for her to be the most senior nurse on duty at night. Obviously there would be other band 5s but given her long experience she was the one in charge. They really needed her back at work!.

(Which is why I thought it would be entirely reasonable for her to check everything was in hand with a particular patient and then say to junior Dr Upton I'll leave you to do the obs then and go on her way to check what else was going on/do other work. Obviously he took great exception to a mere nurse giving him orders and wrapped that up into further evidence of her transphobia plus dereliction of duty.)

Two misgenderings by CM here. My emphasis.

TT 1145
re how she felt about DU?
CM Not happy w him, but more to do with the event that happened. I was reassured she wldnt treat a T patient any differently than another. So felt her feelings were circumstantial to the sitn
JR Read these pages [reads re SP feeling sorry for TG and

TT 1202
Cm It was trying to maintain her prev shift pattern if possible. Hard to work around all the shift patterns
JR U refer to opposite shift to DU?
CM Drs rotas are far more complicated and are pre-populated. They are given hrs they ahve to do so was limited what we cld change for

TT 1204
him. there's more flexibility in nurses rota
JR Email of 20 Mar to ED saying not heard from SP
Yes
JR Then from ED to you. and then a reply from SP saying she didnt want to work days.
CM When I eventually read it I felt we were going backwards. I explained it wasnt punative

That's Alex Horwood/Lynsay Watson, the disgraced ex-cop who operates dozens of false accounts all over social media to harass and threaten people who believe in binary, immutable sex. -
x.com/search?q=lynsey%20watson%20sock&src=typeahead_click

In A&E? I only work in a small DGH and there would always be an appropriately paid shift lead in A&E.

Edited to say I do actually work in a decent trust - it’s dead man’s shoes to get a job here.

Once again rule by fear.

Someone has asked about mumsnetter ages and a few days ago someone asked where we are from. These may well be perfectly friendly questions but please be mindful of giving any personal information that could potentially be triangulated with your other comments to identify you!

but everyone is starting to notice how insidious it all is, it has roots and has grown and its gonna be hard to get rid of now!!

I need to go out (and have a shedload of work I need to get done within the next 30 hours or so), but I think there is scope to introduce cake discussions during the breaks.

If Kate Searle misgenders or - heaven forfend - deadnames Dr Upton tomorrow, anyone Dundee-based Mumsnetters up for making a citizen's arrest?

Sandie Peggie only worked unsocial hours since her first child in 2000. From the start of her Xmin

NC - how long have you been a nurse
SP - since 1994, and at R since 1994.
NC - what is your shift pattern
SP - 2 night shifts per week, since 2000
NC - what was your work pattern before that?
SP - full time day and night shifts
NC - why did you go down to part time
SP - when I had my first child in 2000

from TT: https://archive.is/xkSxy#selection-1045.1-1079.47

Here Here! (Sorry!)

(born in the fifties and will never not be Second Wave)

If NHSF believed that Dr U was entitled to use female changing room, then I guess it wouldn't matter how many female staff felt uncomfortable about it? They'd all be told to put up and shut up

But I still don't understand why this ET is proceeding, having regard to Supreme Court judgement. Looking forward to hearing submissions / reading the judgement

In A&E? I have worked in many A&E departments in England but never seen a night shift when there wasn't at least a Band 6 in charge. The wards are different. Maybe A&E departments in Scotland are more poorly staffed

TT have left out the word evidenced after 'documented' - Lottie Myles tried to ignore anything that wasn't backed up with evidence.

I'd be surprised if an NQ was in charge of A&E. As a band 5 in a MH unit, I was often nurse in charge (sometimes there wasn't a band 6 anywhere on site) but as said - there was always a night manager tucked away in an office somewhere. In some smaller hospitals, yes sometimes it would be band 5's only on nights and a manager on call... Somewhere...

But A&E I would expect to have a minimum of a band 6 AND a night manager. Our (inner city) A&E is incredibly busy and always has senior staff on at night. Maybe it's not the case everywhere.

What are we who like cricket going to do when TMS returns on Wednesday! Aargh, choices!

TMS on radio
Tribunal on t'internet
Even less work done

Also banned from Twitter for the most appalling attacks on James Dreyfus.

I'm getting a vibe here of the Lord smiting the Cities of the Plain: "Yea, Abraham, I shall spare NHS Fife if thou canst find me one manager who looks like she knows what she's doing."

Maybe that's all the mitigation JR has left.

By the way, those dinosaurs all look like they've been out on the skite.

Damn it, I've got to head off for my graduation ceremony in a minute. At this rate, I'll be walking across the stage glued to my phone.

Two quick thoughts:

• Yes, I think SP mentioned being floor co-ordinator for the snickers bar incident, which sounds like she was something like shift lead?

• Side point - when I worked on a MH ward, it was the standard practice for the "Nurse in Charge" role to be rotated across all nurses (B5 and B6) so that B5 nurses could get experience with the skills needed. It led to some uncomfortable interpersonal hierarchies / dynamics because some of the more senior nurses were not supportive or wanted everything done their way, so there was someone who was technically "in charge" and someone else actually running the show.