NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #31

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30, found here: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30

Who else need a pint after all of that?

That was my understanding. So where did 30th come from?

Well that statement is very odd

Fife surely doesn't have Article 10 Rights because that is a Human Right and Fife is a public body, not a human?

That statement is total guff. I do wonder at the timing, might they have hoped the ET would have adjourned for the weekend?

The point the the case ongoing is disingenuous. Surely they can withdraw their response or admit the claim? They are making out it’s all down to SP and not their fault they’re involved at all.

Annabelle Ewing was right. This is a farce.

Well we don't know how Fife identifies and it would be rude to ask.

at the end of para 8

To be clear, the NHS Fife internal disciplinary process (now concluded) is separate and distinct from the ongoing Employment Tribunal. The Employment Tribunal hearing will conclude on 30 July, and the Judgment is expected in the months following that.

I'm beginning to think that 'Sex Matters' is the current dog whistle for 'right wing transphobic terfs...'

Thank you for the links to the statement. I'm not really sure what point NHSFife are making by releasing this.

It was used in Liverpool when I was growing up. My Dad used to say he was going " marmalise me" ( joking!). Ken Dodd used it in the 1960s.

Marmalise means “utterly destroyed” or “totally demolished”. It’s still known in Britain, though less than it was when the renowned Liverpudlian comedian Ken Dodd popularised it in the 1960s.It’s long-established Liverpool-Irish slang, said to be from marmalade plus pulverise.

It does feel as though a different threshold applies when women discuss their rights.

I don't think there have been any demonstrations outside the court, or attempts to disrupt proceedings?

Yes, this includes 2 days of submissions, 1 per party?

Could someone legal explain this please? Who might apply for what order?

Yes, I reckon it was Ken Dodd I'm thinking of.

Well, that was exciting!

Sandie's lawyers believe the statement to be inappropriate and are questioning if NHS Fife should have made the/any statement at all. They've also said that they have had threats of violence against them but were advised not to mention it in the tribunal.

The lawyers don't know what the Judge can legally order to prevent NHS Fife from making statements. The judge has given them till Monday to figure it out.

This implies that an order may be made by the judge on Monday once SP's lawyers have worked out what, if anything, was wrong with the statement and whether they can be prevented from making further statements.

I'm loving the whining that the case is supported by an activist group that exists to fight against exactly this kind of thing, as if that's somehow wrong and unfair. Complaining because a women's rights group supports a case about a woman's rights. Whinging about being a public body.

is 'defamation' people referring to Dr Upton as a male, and 'intimidation' people talking about his actions?

'Controversial', they were described as the other day. Controversial ideas like, people can't change sex, etc.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/nhs-fife-breaks-sandie-peggie-35580577?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
The express take on nhs fife statement

Are you assuming how NHS Fife identified? That's very bold of you. They might identify as human, you bigot.

Am I the only one who's knackered after these 3 days?

JR was panicking here and her argument that SP's legal team were trying to restrict NHS Fife' speech was bizarre and just came across as immature and petulant IMO

Yes I'm painting a picture of the demure Dr U in victorian costume (think David Ealliams sketch) with a fan, a hanky and some smelling salts, left overcome on the verge of fainting at being told he shouldn't be in the women's changing rooms. Sandy I'm imagining a pocket rocket, sleeves rolled up craning her neck to meet eyes with the 6ft 4 Dr. Honestly how to these witnesses have the cheek?

There is a former copper(?) on X who spends a lot of time litigating GC's. He's been having a go at Boswell today (I've been too busy trying to do a spot of work and keeping up here to follow what is/was going on).