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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Reflections on Trans Arguments

885 replies

LimeFinch · 18/06/2025 16:17

I've noticed a lot of general discourse about trans people that is based on misinformation, some of it dangerous, most of it born out of ignorance, so here's a handy reference to counter some of the claims I've seen.

Trans People are extremist! That's wot I done heard!
Transgender extremism doesn't exist - it's just a right-wing talking point used to discredit legitimate healthcare and equality efforts.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-un-view-trans-rights-much-needed-common-sense
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/11/hilary-cass-trans-children-review
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/02/gender-critical-beliefs-under-the-microscope

Puberty Blockers are Dangerous! My total lack of medical knowledge says so!
Puberty blockers are often lifesaving interventions. They're prescribed only after long assessments involving NHS gender clinics, parents, and specialists. They are fully reversible and shown to reduce the risk of suicide in young people with persistent gender dysphoria.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment
https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/tonic-psh-consultation-analysis-report.pdf
https://www.bmj.com/content/386/bmj.q1638.short
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/interim-service-specification-specialist-gender-dysphoria-services-consultation-response
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/news-events/news/rcpch-responds-publication-final-report-cass-review

I Heard They're Changing Kids' Genitalia!
No people under 18 are getting genital surgery in the UK. NHS policy and private clinics alike restrict this to adults.
Indeed, more cisgender teens receive breast reduction surgery on the NHS than trans teens receive chest masculinisation surgery. The procedures follow similar approval processes, yet only one group is routinely scrutinised.
https://pure.johnshopkins.edu/en/publications/breast-surgery-in-adolescents-cisgender-breast-reduction-versus-t
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/10/revealed-thousands-of-trans-surgeries-carried-out-by-nhs/

They're in Women's Sports! I read it on teh internets!
There are only a small number of openly trans athletes competing at a professional level in the world, and none are dominating their fields.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517
https://feeds.bbci.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900

But, but, but, Women's Sports! No men!
Sex-segregated sports were historically introduced to exclude women, not because men were being beaten. The idea that it was about fairness is a myth.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/13/how-the-fa-banned-womens-football-in-1921-and-tried-to-justify-it
https://research.birmingham.ac.uk/en/publications/health-gender-and-inequality-in-sport-a-historical-perspective

Ok, but Trans-women are Stronger. That ain't Fair!
There is no consistent biological advantage for trans women in elite sport. Oestrogen therapy significantly reduces muscle mass, strength and performance over time. Regulations often require minimum hormone levels and transition periods before competing.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/59312313

Trans-Women are Men!!!!!! Any fule knowe that!
Identity is personal. “Man”, “woman”, “boy”, and “girl” are social roles - that’s gender. Not to be confused with biological sex - male and female. No trans woman claims to be biologically female, and no trans man claims to be biologically male. That’s another right-wing straw man argument.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/resources/lgbtq-hubs/trans-hub/the-truth-about-trans

Trans History is Different to Women's History
The idea that trans women have a “separate history” to cis women echoes the same tactics once used to exclude Black women and disabled women from womanhood.
https://blog.bham.ac.uk/socialsciencesbirmingham/2024/03/08/international-womens-day-trans-women-cannot-be-left-behind/
https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/trans-and-disability-justice-how-are-our-struggles-linked
Tall women, Black women, trans women - these are all adjectives describing different types of women. Every woman’s experience of womanhood is unique. If you exclude trans women from being women, what condition are you using to define womanhood? There isn’t one necessary condition. So trans women cannot be excluded from womanhood on this basis.

Trans-Women are Men in Dresses! I read it in the Daily Mail!
Crossdressing is not the same as being trans. Many cis men crossdress and are not trans.
https://fiorry.co/glossary/crossdresser/

But Anybody can be Trans in an Instant! I'm scared!
The risk of coming out as trans due to internalised homophobia and sexism is a real thing but is not as common as many would have you believe. That’s why the NHS has a structured care pathway with long waiting times and assessments. No one can simply walk in and access hormones or surgery. Many people are left in limbo for years unless they are in crisis or suicidal.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/
https://transactual.org.uk/trans-lives-21/

Organisations are Convincing Kids They're Trans! Think of the Children!
No one is trying to “convince” people they’re trans. If you feel deep discomfort with the sex you were assigned at birth, you might be trans - but that’s for you to explore, not for anyone else to decide. The queer community is generally very good at spotting people who are dealing with internalised issues - no one wants anyone to transition unless it’s truly needed. This whole “kids being convinced” thing is another empty scare story.
https://transactual.org.uk/healthcare-professionals/inclusive-healthcare/
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/

Now, I'm very aware of the MN reputation for shutting down the threads - and removing the accounts - of anyone who doesn't go along with the anti-trans-hate-cult, but for the short time this thread remains up it's worth taking some time to actually look at the links, to think about the status of trans-women in the current society, and consider how this judgement - and the subsequent interpretation of the same by those who are a little hard of thinking - might reflect on us as self-assumed rational, reasonable human beings.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
42
HermioneWeasley · 18/06/2025 16:19

Pretty much every woman on here ended up in their gender critical stance because she “educated herself”. Bore off

HobnobsChoice · 18/06/2025 16:20
Fake Surprised Season 8 GIF by Friends

Well that's gonna change all our minds.

Especially those of us who are medically trained or at least able to read the various research into blockers and puberty as well as understanding safeguarding

Newsenmum · 18/06/2025 16:20

Good luck 😉 🫠

AncientBallerina · 18/06/2025 16:22

Is this a reverse?

dementedpixie · 18/06/2025 16:22

🤣🤣🤣🤣
That's what I think of your pile of nonsense

Waitwhat23 · 18/06/2025 16:23

I'm actually going to go through each of your nonsense points later for the sake of the lurkers but you begin from a fallacy -

Tall women, Black women, trans women - these are all adjectives describing different types of women.

No. Transwomen are not a 'type of woman'. Transwomen are a type of men.

Stop with the bullshit, tell your fellow men to be more inclusive and welcoming to their fellow gender non conforming men and you'll get on much better.

As it is, all this footstamping at women's legal right to have single sex services and sporting categories makes you look ridiculous.

Igneococcus · 18/06/2025 16:24

The stupid spellings annoy me too much to read or engage with this post and English isn't even my native language.

Thelnebriati · 18/06/2025 16:26

Sorry you don't like women having boundaries, rights and definitions but that's not my problem.
Campaign for your own rights. Mine are not yours to take, I'm still using them.

Greyskybluesky · 18/06/2025 16:26

They're in Women's Sports! I read it on teh internets!
There are only a small number of openly trans athletes competing at a professional level in the world, and none are dominating their fields.

translates as:
there's only a "small number" of men pushing their way into women's sports. There's only a "small number" of men cheating women and girls out of their rightful medals and accolades. It's only a "small number" so what are you whining about, women? Just let the men take what's yours and stop moaning.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 18/06/2025 16:27

Yeah yeah yeah we are all too stupid and uneducated to understand why men are really women.

Greyskybluesky · 18/06/2025 16:27

Igneococcus · 18/06/2025 16:24

The stupid spellings annoy me too much to read or engage with this post and English isn't even my native language.

😆

Don't forget the exclamation marks!!!!!!!!!!!!

SternJoyousBee · 18/06/2025 16:27

Zzzzzzzzz 🙄

gender is bollocks
sex is real
humans cannot change sex
women have rights including in some circumstances the right to single sex spaces

HTH

ninjahamster · 18/06/2025 16:28

You are brave posting this! FWIW I agree with the points you make.

ParmaVioletTea · 18/06/2025 16:28

oooooo a TRA/MRA has deigned to give us his/her wisdom on these matters.

Becuz we little women know nothing

Greyskybluesky · 18/06/2025 16:29

ninjahamster · 18/06/2025 16:28

You are brave posting this! FWIW I agree with the points you make.

'course you do

OneGreyScroller · 18/06/2025 16:29

"Trans-Women are Men!!!!!! Any fule knowe that!
Identity is personal. “Man”, “woman”, “boy”, and “girl” are social roles - that’s gender. Not to be confused with biological sex - male and female. No trans woman claims to be biologically female, and no trans man claims to be biologically male. That’s another right-wing straw man argument."

What do you mean by biological sex?

Many trans people are constantly talking about the aspects of sex which can be changed, I. E. Phenotype.

I agree that none are saying they can change their chromosomes.

ninjahamster · 18/06/2025 16:29

Greyskybluesky · 18/06/2025 16:29

'course you do

?

ConsumedByCake · 18/06/2025 16:29

“No trans woman claims to be 100% biologically female … That’s another right-wing straw man argument”

Check out India Willoughby on X on 16 August 2022: “I’m 100% a biological woman and female. The fact the GC movement can’t handle this simple fact isn’t my problem. Jealous.”

TheyFuckYouUpYourMamAndDad · 18/06/2025 16:30

Oh do just fuck right off! This is getting very boring now.

lcakethereforeIam · 18/06/2025 16:30

Wow! This is such a blast from the past. Makes me feel a little nostalgic 😌 <- that is, apparently, the 'nostalgic' face. I'm sure they used to be better than that.

Waitwhat23 · 18/06/2025 16:31

ConsumedByCake · 18/06/2025 16:29

“No trans woman claims to be 100% biologically female … That’s another right-wing straw man argument”

Check out India Willoughby on X on 16 August 2022: “I’m 100% a biological woman and female. The fact the GC movement can’t handle this simple fact isn’t my problem. Jealous.”

For anyone doubting this -

Reflections on Trans Arguments
crumpet · 18/06/2025 16:31

I think the OP thinks we’re back in 2018 (or earlier). Laughably out of date.

RainbowZebraWarrior · 18/06/2025 16:31

Oh bore off with your 'that's what I done heard' language and you assumption that we are all Daily Mail reading right wing bigots with no brains.

If you actually did care to engage with the women on this thread, you'd know that they are some of the most intelligent you will ever meet.

Whereas you on the other hand, have just made yourself look like a total dick.

Memoryhole · 18/06/2025 16:33

Oh please!

We have all seen transwomen claiming to be biological women. India Willoughby and Veronica Ivy being two who spring to mind.

Oh and Dr Upton on the employment case.

Do you think we are all suffering from post baby or menopausal brain fog or something?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 18/06/2025 16:33

The great thing about this is that post Supreme Court judgement we can say what we really think in response to this patronising post! Good. I'm with those who didn't get past the first line because of the stupid writing style.

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