Reflections on Trans Arguments

[LimeFinch]

I've noticed a lot of general discourse about trans people that is based on misinformation, some of it dangerous, most of it born out of ignorance, so here's a handy reference to counter some of the claims I've seen.

Trans People are extremist! That's wot I done heard!
Transgender extremism doesn't exist - it's just a right-wing talking point used to discredit legitimate healthcare and equality efforts.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-un-view-trans-rights-much-needed-common-sense
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/11/hilary-cass-trans-children-review
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/02/gender-critical-beliefs-under-the-microscope

Puberty Blockers are Dangerous! My total lack of medical knowledge says so!
Puberty blockers are often lifesaving interventions. They're prescribed only after long assessments involving NHS gender clinics, parents, and specialists. They are fully reversible and shown to reduce the risk of suicide in young people with persistent gender dysphoria.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment
https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/tonic-psh-consultation-analysis-report.pdf
https://www.bmj.com/content/386/bmj.q1638.short
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/interim-service-specification-specialist-gender-dysphoria-services-consultation-response
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/news-events/news/rcpch-responds-publication-final-report-cass-review

I Heard They're Changing Kids' Genitalia!
No people under 18 are getting genital surgery in the UK. NHS policy and private clinics alike restrict this to adults.
Indeed, more cisgender teens receive breast reduction surgery on the NHS than trans teens receive chest masculinisation surgery. The procedures follow similar approval processes, yet only one group is routinely scrutinised.
https://pure.johnshopkins.edu/en/publications/breast-surgery-in-adolescents-cisgender-breast-reduction-versus-t
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/10/revealed-thousands-of-trans-surgeries-carried-out-by-nhs/

They're in Women's Sports! I read it on teh internets!
There are only a small number of openly trans athletes competing at a professional level in the world, and none are dominating their fields.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517
https://feeds.bbci.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900

But, but, but, Women's Sports! No men!
Sex-segregated sports were historically introduced to exclude women, not because men were being beaten. The idea that it was about fairness is a myth.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/13/how-the-fa-banned-womens-football-in-1921-and-tried-to-justify-it
https://research.birmingham.ac.uk/en/publications/health-gender-and-inequality-in-sport-a-historical-perspective

Ok, but Trans-women are Stronger. That ain't Fair!
There is no consistent biological advantage for trans women in elite sport. Oestrogen therapy significantly reduces muscle mass, strength and performance over time. Regulations often require minimum hormone levels and transition periods before competing.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/59312313

Trans-Women are Men!!!!!! Any fule knowe that!
Identity is personal. “Man”, “woman”, “boy”, and “girl” are social roles - that’s gender. Not to be confused with biological sex - male and female. No trans woman claims to be biologically female, and no trans man claims to be biologically male. That’s another right-wing straw man argument.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/resources/lgbtq-hubs/trans-hub/the-truth-about-trans

Trans History is Different to Women's History
The idea that trans women have a “separate history” to cis women echoes the same tactics once used to exclude Black women and disabled women from womanhood.
https://blog.bham.ac.uk/socialsciencesbirmingham/2024/03/08/international-womens-day-trans-women-cannot-be-left-behind/
https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/trans-and-disability-justice-how-are-our-struggles-linked
Tall women, Black women, trans women - these are all adjectives describing different types of women. Every woman’s experience of womanhood is unique. If you exclude trans women from being women, what condition are you using to define womanhood? There isn’t one necessary condition. So trans women cannot be excluded from womanhood on this basis.

Trans-Women are Men in Dresses! I read it in the Daily Mail!
Crossdressing is not the same as being trans. Many cis men crossdress and are not trans.
https://fiorry.co/glossary/crossdresser/

But Anybody can be Trans in an Instant! I'm scared!
The risk of coming out as trans due to internalised homophobia and sexism is a real thing but is not as common as many would have you believe. That’s why the NHS has a structured care pathway with long waiting times and assessments. No one can simply walk in and access hormones or surgery. Many people are left in limbo for years unless they are in crisis or suicidal.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/
https://transactual.org.uk/trans-lives-21/

Organisations are Convincing Kids They're Trans! Think of the Children!
No one is trying to “convince” people they’re trans. If you feel deep discomfort with the sex you were assigned at birth, you might be trans - but that’s for you to explore, not for anyone else to decide. The queer community is generally very good at spotting people who are dealing with internalised issues - no one wants anyone to transition unless it’s truly needed. This whole “kids being convinced” thing is another empty scare story.
https://transactual.org.uk/healthcare-professionals/inclusive-healthcare/
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/

Now, I'm very aware of the MN reputation for shutting down the threads - and removing the accounts - of anyone who doesn't go along with the anti-trans-hate-cult, but for the short time this thread remains up it's worth taking some time to actually look at the links, to think about the status of trans-women in the current society, and consider how this judgement - and the subsequent interpretation of the same by those who are a little hard of thinking - might reflect on us as self-assumed rational, reasonable human beings.

Jesus this is grim

I know, sorry, it even startled me when I looked at it. I had saved the link some time ago but it’s been updated since then.

100 more anti clockwise cauldron stirs on a wet Wednesday and then we'll see!

Maybe

Probably not

𝐎𝕣 𝘆ⓞ𝒖 𝚌𝓸🅤𝖑𝒹 𝓉𝐫𝙮 𝘣🅡🄸🅱𝙞🅽𝑔 𝙢𝚎 𝚠ⓘ🆃𝒉 𝑎 𝑻ⓤ𝒏𝓷𝚘𝐜𝔨'𝘀 𝒯𝘦🅰𝕔𝓪🄺𝔢

Why are you linking articles? As if one article has any relevance to what you are trying to claim. Anyone with a degree beyond undergraduate will know that supporting an arguement with one article makes the same impact as linking no article at all. For every article you link, there will be another claiming the exact opposite, and any good researcher knows they would need to meticulously read countless articles, weight up their findings, to determine a conclusion... your post is baseless. You've wasted a great deal of time trying to 'educate' us, when you should prehaps be educating yourself.

And for those wondering 'what is actually means to be a women'... being a women is shaped from the minute you are born. How you are treated as a girl, the experiences only girls and women will have been through, as opposed to growing up a boy. The differing treatments they receive is society on a day to day basis. A man cannot simply 'transition' into a women and know what it is to live as one.

They already had equality so what support do you mean?

Support them to carry on cheating in womens sports?
Support them to enter women and girls toilets and changing rooms?
Support them to call us Naz.. because we disagree with them?

What support do you mean?

In my attempts to understand:

• I CAN understand the sports because it's pure and simple cheating. There'll always be cheats in life.

• I CAN'T understand why some people are absolutely determined to get men into women / girls toilets and changing rooms.

• I CAN'T understand how some women (even those with daughters) have become handmaidens and thereby want to protect them.

How would YOU suggest we support biological males who are trying to be women?

What does equal treatment for trans people mean?

How is it brave?

It’s all debunked nonsense, but posting it here will just make people piss themselves laughing. As if no-one here has given this any thought, or there are not doctors, scientists, colleagues and relatives of trans people. It is hilarious the lack of awareness, as if all of this is news.

It is quite sweet in its naivety.

But OP isn’t in any danger!

Yeah… no.

Was that a spoof?

Possibly a spoof written by ChatGPT?

What do people think is the most unbelievable complaint on here?

I'm voting for

"Indeed, more cisgender teens receive breast reduction surgery on the NHS than trans teens receive chest masculinisation surgery."

Fancy trying to justify teen "trans" getting breasts removed because some teenage girls need breast reduction for i.e. back injuries.

Hate to break it to you OP but probably cisgender women get double mastectomies more often than trans men do on the NHS.

That’s a lot of words to say you’re talking shite OP. Run along back to Reddit and give your head a GOOD wobble; the grown ups here haven't got time for your pish.

They have updated their literature now but this is a screenshot of what it once said.

link to Spiked article about it: https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/09/04/candice-afghanistan/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Edited to say the screen shot didn’t attach so I’ll add below

Not sure who your intended audience is, but embarrassingly poor parodies of the way you believe less well educated people in the UK express themselves land badly. No one in the UK says 'done' before a verb.

“Reflections on Trans Arguments”

trans activist arguments are shite and unconvincing and misogynistic. Hope that meets the brief.

It's impossible to pick because because they are all total utter bollocks.

Fancy using US figures - where private 'cosmetic' surgery is far more common in younger women and girls - to make claims about NHS provision.

This is the screenshot

@LimeFinch” Now, I'm very aware of the MN reputation for shutting down the threads - and removing the accounts - of anyone who doesn't go along with the anti-trans-hate-cult”

This is nonsense. There are plenty of pro-trans activist posters here. Doesn’t mean everyone will agree with you, though, which might be a shock after Reddit and the like.

Mumsnet allows disagreement with gender ideology, and it also allows agreement with gender ideology, so I can see that you think you are being super brave running into the dragon’s den and doing a big plop of things we have already looked into, but no-one is going to cancel your account or take the thread down.

People might choose to argue with your methods and sources of evidence, or with your ideology, but that’s the worst that will happen.

Educating myself and actually knowing TW in real life is what peaked me.

I absolutely lol-ed at the no such thing as trans extremists 😂. 10 minutes on Twitter proves your links to be lies.

I was going to say I pity the fool. But I don’t.

To be fair I only scanned the first three as I could feel my brain cells melting.

Thank you. FFS. They used to be sensible, I'm sure.

Crikey.

This thread is going to be fun.

i want the laugh react emoji and I want it now

Well, OP, I don't even know where to start with that load of old cobblers.