Reflections on Trans Arguments

[LimeFinch]

I've noticed a lot of general discourse about trans people that is based on misinformation, some of it dangerous, most of it born out of ignorance, so here's a handy reference to counter some of the claims I've seen.

Trans People are extremist! That's wot I done heard!
Transgender extremism doesn't exist - it's just a right-wing talking point used to discredit legitimate healthcare and equality efforts.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-un-view-trans-rights-much-needed-common-sense
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/11/hilary-cass-trans-children-review
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/02/gender-critical-beliefs-under-the-microscope

Puberty Blockers are Dangerous! My total lack of medical knowledge says so!
Puberty blockers are often lifesaving interventions. They're prescribed only after long assessments involving NHS gender clinics, parents, and specialists. They are fully reversible and shown to reduce the risk of suicide in young people with persistent gender dysphoria.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment
https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/tonic-psh-consultation-analysis-report.pdf
https://www.bmj.com/content/386/bmj.q1638.short
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/interim-service-specification-specialist-gender-dysphoria-services-consultation-response
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/news-events/news/rcpch-responds-publication-final-report-cass-review

I Heard They're Changing Kids' Genitalia!
No people under 18 are getting genital surgery in the UK. NHS policy and private clinics alike restrict this to adults.
Indeed, more cisgender teens receive breast reduction surgery on the NHS than trans teens receive chest masculinisation surgery. The procedures follow similar approval processes, yet only one group is routinely scrutinised.
https://pure.johnshopkins.edu/en/publications/breast-surgery-in-adolescents-cisgender-breast-reduction-versus-t
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/10/revealed-thousands-of-trans-surgeries-carried-out-by-nhs/

They're in Women's Sports! I read it on teh internets!
There are only a small number of openly trans athletes competing at a professional level in the world, and none are dominating their fields.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517
https://feeds.bbci.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900

But, but, but, Women's Sports! No men!
Sex-segregated sports were historically introduced to exclude women, not because men were being beaten. The idea that it was about fairness is a myth.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/13/how-the-fa-banned-womens-football-in-1921-and-tried-to-justify-it
https://research.birmingham.ac.uk/en/publications/health-gender-and-inequality-in-sport-a-historical-perspective

Ok, but Trans-women are Stronger. That ain't Fair!
There is no consistent biological advantage for trans women in elite sport. Oestrogen therapy significantly reduces muscle mass, strength and performance over time. Regulations often require minimum hormone levels and transition periods before competing.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/59312313

Trans-Women are Men!!!!!! Any fule knowe that!
Identity is personal. “Man”, “woman”, “boy”, and “girl” are social roles - that’s gender. Not to be confused with biological sex - male and female. No trans woman claims to be biologically female, and no trans man claims to be biologically male. That’s another right-wing straw man argument.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/resources/lgbtq-hubs/trans-hub/the-truth-about-trans

Trans History is Different to Women's History
The idea that trans women have a “separate history” to cis women echoes the same tactics once used to exclude Black women and disabled women from womanhood.
https://blog.bham.ac.uk/socialsciencesbirmingham/2024/03/08/international-womens-day-trans-women-cannot-be-left-behind/
https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/trans-and-disability-justice-how-are-our-struggles-linked
Tall women, Black women, trans women - these are all adjectives describing different types of women. Every woman’s experience of womanhood is unique. If you exclude trans women from being women, what condition are you using to define womanhood? There isn’t one necessary condition. So trans women cannot be excluded from womanhood on this basis.

Trans-Women are Men in Dresses! I read it in the Daily Mail!
Crossdressing is not the same as being trans. Many cis men crossdress and are not trans.
https://fiorry.co/glossary/crossdresser/

But Anybody can be Trans in an Instant! I'm scared!
The risk of coming out as trans due to internalised homophobia and sexism is a real thing but is not as common as many would have you believe. That’s why the NHS has a structured care pathway with long waiting times and assessments. No one can simply walk in and access hormones or surgery. Many people are left in limbo for years unless they are in crisis or suicidal.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/
https://transactual.org.uk/trans-lives-21/

Organisations are Convincing Kids They're Trans! Think of the Children!
No one is trying to “convince” people they’re trans. If you feel deep discomfort with the sex you were assigned at birth, you might be trans - but that’s for you to explore, not for anyone else to decide. The queer community is generally very good at spotting people who are dealing with internalised issues - no one wants anyone to transition unless it’s truly needed. This whole “kids being convinced” thing is another empty scare story.
https://transactual.org.uk/healthcare-professionals/inclusive-healthcare/
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/

Now, I'm very aware of the MN reputation for shutting down the threads - and removing the accounts - of anyone who doesn't go along with the anti-trans-hate-cult, but for the short time this thread remains up it's worth taking some time to actually look at the links, to think about the status of trans-women in the current society, and consider how this judgement - and the subsequent interpretation of the same by those who are a little hard of thinking - might reflect on us as self-assumed rational, reasonable human beings.

I think this needs a diagram.

I would, but I’m going for a swim in the sea. People can’t change sex. Sex is binary and immutable.

HTH.

Trollsplaining?

I thought the fragrant Dr Upton said that?
Maybe they both said it...

That is the most patronising load of bollocks I've seen on here in a long time!

No danger of you being deleted and your account suspended for this thread OP, we're perfectly happy to leave such a diatribe of evidence-free tosh standing so people can see how weak all your arguments actually are. Virtually every point in there can easily proven to be wrong.

It’s not worth anything to be honest.

Ha
Ha
Ha
Ha
Ha

I Needed a good laugh!

Fucking hell 🙄 trans women aren't women and never will be no matter how many bullshit arguments you want to mansplain to us silly real women

@TwoLoonsAndASprout

LIKE THIS

Or as the OP would probably say

Leyek HtiS

sıɥʇ ǝʞıן uǝʌǝ ɹO

Trans People are extremist! That's wot I done heard!
Transgender extremism doesn't exist

Where to start. No one says all 'trans people' are extremist, but that doesn't mean that transgender extremism doesn't exist. Unless you're suggesting that acknowledging the existence of, say, Islamic extremism (eg the Taliban) meant all Muslims are extremists, which would be quite a position to take.

But, but, but, Women's Sports! No men!
Sex-segregated sports were historically introduced to exclude women, not because men were being beaten.

This is bollocks

No trans woman claims to be biologically female,

Sure...

Anyway, it's lovely you've taken the time out from bullying bunnies or clubbing foxes or flogging hormones to ND young people or whatever it is you get up to when you're not here. Enjoy the sunshine

Woman means only sex and nothing more
it says nothing about us other than our reporoductive biology

adding anything else to that - an assumption of a common feeling - degrades women - diminishes them in all they great variety and wonderfulness

transwomen means man or any of us could say we feel like a transowmen and therefore we would be transwomen but as yet there is no recorded female transwomen rather proving the point

@LimeFinch and the subsequent interpretation of the same by those who are a little hard of thinking

Personally, I don't find it hard at all to think that kids shouldn't be chemically castrated and irreversible damaged. But that's just me.

Transgender extremism doesn't exist - it's just a right-wing talking point used to discredit legitimate healthcare and equality efforts.
Your sources are biased and therefore not credible sources. Amnesty once described women in Afghanistan as being oppressed because they 'identify' as women.

Puberty blockers are often lifesaving interventions.
Your own source says- 'Puberty suppressing hormones are not available to children and young people for the treatment of gender dysphoria or gender incongruence. This is because there is not enough evidence on their clinical safety and effectiveness'
Your source also says that cross sex hormones can cause 'permanent infertility'

No people under 18 are getting genital surgery in the UK.
The former head of Mermaids took her then 16yo son abroad to have his penis removed, are you saying this didn't happen?

There are only a small number of openly trans athletes competing at a professional level in the world, and none are dominating their fields.
From your own source Harper admits there are advantaged as he says: "Advantages are not necessarily unfair". Tucker says "even after testosterone levels are lowered it leaves behind a significant portion of what gives males sporting performance advantages over females".

Sex-segregated sports were historically introduced to exclude women, not because men were being beaten. The idea that it was about fairness is a myth.
Total lie. Your own source discusses banning of women's football because they regarded it as too popular, it was already sex segregated before this, and was not banned because men were being beaten.

There is no consistent biological advantage for trans women in elite sport. Oestrogen therapy significantly reduces muscle mass, strength and performance over time. Regulations often require minimum hormone levels and transition periods before competing.
See above

Identity is personal. “Man”, “woman”, “boy”, and “girl” are social roles - that’s gender.
Total anti-science

The idea that trans women have a “separate history” to cis women echoes the same tactics once used to exclude Black women and disabled women from womanhood.
Comparing black women to men is racism in the extreme. Your true colours are showing

No one can simply walk in and access hormones or surgery.
Many people who previously identified as trans talk about how it was way too easy to access hormones and surgery. There have even been court cases. I thought you were all about 'lived experience' so why are you denying the lived experience of trans people

No one is trying to “convince” people they’re trans.
Have a quick google of what happened at the Tavistock.

Given that your points are demonstrably untrue, in fact often discredited by your own sources, show you have done little to no research, unlike the women on here, and therefore you cannot be taken seriously,

But HOW??

Witches. Y’all are witches I say.

It's always fun when it's apparent they either haven't read or haven't understood their own references.

When it comes to sports I find this is a pretty compelling read.

https://www.world.rugby/the-game/player-welfare/guidelines/transgender

I'm glad to see this. I feel there's definitely a climate on this forum in which I feel it's not popular to support equal treatment for trans people.

The cyclist definitely said it - I remember the interview. Just the fact that we’re having this exchange debunks the claim no one ever says it!!

Yeh, i don't agree with any of your so-called counter arguments I'm afraid 😁

So you’re mansplaining to a group of women how they should feel on issues that directly impact on them? This is just another example of men telling us how we should feel.

Transwomen are men and exhibit male behaviours and so should be treated as men when sex differences matter

and they can do what they like anywhere else

the end

see how short this whole thing can be

@TwoLoonsAndASprout Are you ready for the biggly words power?

With

biggly

powers come

biggly

responsibilities

Oh dear

Amnesty once described women in Afghanistan as being oppressed because they 'identify' as women.
This is jaw-dropping. Is there a source for it? (I'm not disbelieving you; would just love to be able to pull out this statement and its source should the occasion arise).

But, but, but, Women's Sports! No men!
Sex-segregated sports were historically introduced to exclude women, not because men were being beaten. The idea that it was about fairness is a myth.

Oh come on, one look at the list of world records in athletics blows this "argument" out of the water.