NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #26

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access. However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was doubtful whether pubilc access for remote viewing would be reinstated but recent developments (as of mid May) suggest that this might actually become available again.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25

Never fuck about with a pissed off middle aged lady.

We will kill you with icy politeness and application of policies, complaints procedures and erm, the actual law.

Conspicuously Law Abiding Women.

Yep the tank called CLAW

I was going to ask if somebody could point me to the origin of that phrase, and then a little voice said 'don't be so lazy, look it up yourself!' so I did, and I'm sharing in case others out there are wondering where CLAW comes from:
GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/03/2025 19:38
NC has given us another label to use - CLAW:
^https://x.com/suladoyle/status/1900203798292820249?s=46^
“Naomi Cunningham at the Croydon employment tribunal M Newman v Metropolitan Police: describes feminist groups as ‘Conspicuously Law-Abiding Women’ - welcome to CLAW.”

Thank you GMWW

I think it’s even better than that - I think the “other” side used it as an insult in that particular tribunal. (Haven’t gone back to check though so may be wrong…)

I confess it’s not my phrase. It’s from the title of a book by an SEN mum. It’s telling that women really have to steel themselves to stand up for their rights. It’s very gendered isn’t it? A hint of emotional outburst and you’re written off in a flash - so velvet bulldozer it has to be. Immovable. Implacable. Determined. Ever moving forward!

Thanks for this@ickky. I guess these threads are going to start accelerating shortly.

Thanks @ickky I’ve emailed

And thanks @nauticant for keeping the threads going - did you realise what you were taking on bavk in February?!

Is any in-person access available, or all remote?

Of course, there was going to be about half a dozen threads with things wrapped up in a few weeks.

Blimey thread #1 was last October !

OMG it’s July!

That is it then me knotty, and sprouts claim to fame

THE VELVET TANK CALLED CLAW

I just realised the same thing! it's July NOW

@ickky different email address this time - previously it was Edinburgh. Wonder if this reflects a different team in charge of the tech.

@ThreeWordHarpy

I originally emailed Dundee as that is where it is listed on Court serve. I had a reply from Edinburgh which told me I needed to email the place in my previous post.

Not convoluted at all. 🙄

@nauticant Yes they will get going again. Have the next 20 threads lined up. 😂

Thank you so much for keeping these going, it is exhausting trying to keep up.

MarieDeGournay · Yesterday 19:08

Sorry...

I went through school being mocked for my forename and surname. I answer to anything that may vaguely resemble my forename, which people sometimes pluralise.

I'm sure she's made of stern stuff and hope she won't be offended.

I'm not sure whether NC may have coined.the actual phrase, but it was certainly the other side that first brought up the concept in that case - apparently under the impression it was a damning criticism.

Yes. There is a description of the facilities and a list of the order of priority in which in-person and online access will be granted, in one of the June court documents linked on the Tribunal Tweets substack. I think the in-person location for members of the public will be an overflow room in the court (presumably via video link). I don't think the capacity of the overflow room was detailed.

I have requested access. I was able to watch some of the first part, and I would very much like to see the conclusion.

Update: Last night I somehow applied first to the old email address to request online access, and I was sent an operational note that included what has already been posted by someone else but also this:

The hearing will take place before Employment Judge Kemp with members in Room 4. Seating may be available for members of the public, but it is likely that places will be very limited. The clerk present on site will address seating arrangements at thetime of the hearing.

An overspill room will be available in Room 1

So it seems possible that some members of public will get spaces in the tribunal room. But there is no indication of total numbers of spaces available.

Thanks @NebulousSupportPostcard

i think this time around the courts are a lot more prepared for the public interest. I assume they’ve got their act together because the headlines about the hearing itself will be enough without potential comment about shambolic organisation or online disruption.

Thanks @ickky .

Given the amount of interest it seems crazy for there to only be 300 spots. 🤞