NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #23

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22

Political Editor
@HeraldScotland
. Email tips/stories/news to [email protected]. DMs open.

Andrew Learmonth at the Herald, KnottyAuty

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/snp-quango-claims-excluding-men-34893188?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
Historic environment Scotland (who the fuck came up with that name and wtf do they do) are at it to

You'll find it in the FICTION section .

I like how most people on this board can calculate how much something is in various Tunnock products in their heads.

Fantasy section, maybe?

Historic Environment Scotland used to be plain Historic Scotland, before the Environment demanded to be let in, wearing lipstick, a bad wig and pink leggings.

That's very helpfully saying the quiet part out loud.

lol glad its not just me who thinks that about the HES name

I wonder what else one can purchase for £28.

According to Chat GPT £28 buys you.

A large bag of porridge.

A monthly subscription to “Goth Box”

A collection of rare or novelty socks.

A massive jar of Marmite.

Any of which would be more interesting and truthful to read.

At 99p per kg of porridge oats that's not a large bag of porridge, I believe the correct term for 28kg of oats is a fuck load

I love porridge. A fuck load it is.

the book would be cheaper toilet paper than an actual family pack of toilet paper

It's 700 portions. An absolute fuck load.

Checked in here expecting an SP update... only to be educated on port and starboard mnemonics before logging off with an unexpected image of a f/truckload of porridge leaving me wanting breakfast 10 hours early.

Outstanding.

But would it really do the job? Besides, you might get smug sentences all over your arse.

Igneococcus · Today 14:13

I used to be an extreme microbiologist, I mean, I used to work on microbes from extreme environments, including deep sea hydrothermal vent systems but also terrestrial hot springs like in Yellowstone or NZ (never Iceland sadly). I went out to sea few times (several times in the Pacific and once Indian Ocean) always on ships that carried submersibles and I went diving in Alvin once to 2000 metres...

God, am I jealous! All I do is tow side scan sonar, chirp / sparked and magnetometer! And drop Nissin bottles, to get samples of sulphate reducing bacteria, at metal structures.

Wtf is a 'goth box'?

Ooh just accidentally clicked on this:
https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/article/1822248/considering-legalities-single-sex-toilets

May 2023 Earl Shilton Town Council v Miller ET

• An allegation was made of direct sex discrimination relating to the provision of toilet facilities in the workplace.
• She claimed that the shared toilet arrangement amounted to direct sex discrimination, and this claim was upheld by the Employment Appeal Tribunal (EAT).
• The EAT held that the arrangements subjected the claimant to a detriment.
• The EAT also found that the claimant was treated less favourably, noting that at no point during the period did any male employee not have immediate access to appropriate toilet facilities.
• The EAT did acknowledge, however, that a man could also have a direct sex discrimination complaint by virtue of being seen using the facilities by a member of the opposite sex.

Doesn't this set a precedent for SP's claim direct sex discrimination against DU by virtue of being seen using the facilities by a member of the opposite sex?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/63d8076fd3bf7f252a730a11/Earl_Shilton_Town_Council_-v-_Ms_K_Miller__2023__EAT_5.pdf

Decision from page 5

"Any reasonable person could reasonably consider not having immediate direct access to toilet facilities, the risk of seeing a person of the opposite sex using toilet facilities (the risk need not have materialised to be a detriment in our judgment) and not having a bin in which to dispose of sanitary products as a series of detriments"

"Detriment is established if treatment is of a kind that a reasonable worker would or might take the view that in all the circumstances it was to his detriment"

It seems like Nicola's memoir will be called "Frankly" and cost £28. 28 pounds,

As Rhett Butler said in the film "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"

Envious of all those who go to sea on research vessels, although oceanography and geology were my thing.

Amazon are selling it for £13.99 on kindle (preorder price) or for free on audio with a membership trial.

@KnottyAuty good find

EHRC are still waiting for NHS Fife to produce their Equality Impact Assessment on allowing a biological male into the women’s changing area.

NHS Fife are saying they never got the letter from EHRC asking to see it. Dog ate my homework?

NHS Fife admit they knew about ithe request and that Sandie Peggie’s solicitor asked for the EIA last year.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25022368.ehrc-still-waiting-nhs-fife-trans-changing-room-policy/

https://archive.ph/A0oAb

Thanks!

there was also a link to this at the bottom - also recently which I’d missed:

https://archive.ph/j2U45