NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #23

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22

You almost wonder if there is some truth to the conspiracy theory that this is designed to hijack the independence movement. But of course it isn’t just Scotland. It’s in many many countries.

Yeah. Lots of countries

unherd.com/newsroom/why-is-the-eu-funding-the-gender-lobby/

Iggy, wow, your FIRST trip on a research vessel? I'd love to hear more, if you have time while we're waiting for more on NHS-Fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-Sandie-Peggie :)

Also mandarin

GetDressedYou This info together with your user name is giving me a worrying picture - is Arthur flying the plane?
(I'm sure he'd be fine)

I genuinely don't think that John Swinney believes all this. Unfortunately due to the exodus of sensible SNP members he's surrounded by the ideologues now and feels unable to take a decisive stand.

The dam will burst though. There's a lot of determined politicians still raising the issue in Scottish parliament and thanks to papers like the Sunday Post and The Herald and The Courier; investigative journalists aren't letting it drop. It's a shame wings over Scotland won't get more credit in the Scottish media for this but he has also been like a dog with a bone.

Don't worry I don't have a pony.

Also he hasn't kept his hours up so isn't flying these days.

I think the monstering and continued attempts to de-legitimise Wings throughout this whole sorry period has been one of the really unfortunate side-effects. But pretty diagnostic of the priorities of those involved - gender ideology over independence every time.

Brilliant, thank you

You have all been watching this longer than me - but this is the first time I have seen an SNP politician state they would reconsider saying anything but that stupid phrase like "we remain committed to single sex spaces" when they actually mean mixed sex spaces. And while still denying that there is even a whiff of a problem with the law, it is now being given air time that things might not be water tight...

And a politician willingly giving up this sort of intell to a journalist? Things have shifted since Neil Gray's "full confidence" haven't they? Certainly sends a different signal to all the NHS Trusts who have put self ID into all their policies.

There are Scottish elections in 2026 - Sturgeon was booed outside parliament - they've pulled back on the forced refit of electric heating in homes.... it will save the SNP's bacon if these court rulings go with public opinion rather than Stonewall Law. They can roll it all back and point to the Judiciary. Bliddy cowards.

"gender ideology over independence" - maybe that will be the SNP's obituary?!

Or a great meme - with a tombstone to Nicola Sturgeon's political career - I need to learn how to work the graphical AI

Also this interesting one from The Herald about that Care Inspectorate advice:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25018496.scottish-government-fire-single-sex-space-policy/

I used to be an extreme microbiologist, I mean, I used to work on microbes from extreme environments, including deep sea hydrothermal vent systems but also terrestrial hot springs like in Yellowstone or NZ (never Iceland sadly). I went out to sea few times (several times in the Pacific and once Indian Ocean) always on ships that carried submersibles and I went diving in Alvin once to 2000 metres (I talked about that a bit on the Titan threads). I also spent a lot of time hiking to remote areas of Yellowstone and New Zealand, once into the caldera of Mt St Helens to take samples. I loved it, I still know lots of people who do this kind of work.
I'm still a microbiologist but I work with less extreme organisms now. I still carry a bsaic sampling kit with me in the car because you never know when you see something interesting :)

That's sounds so interesting! And is that where your username comes from?

Those both sound like really interesting jobs. Especially on the research ship. Not ideal for fitting in the school run but it sounds amazing.

Apologies if this has been linked already

https://archive.is/cvD82

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/scotland-hospitals-single-sex-spaces-kaukab-stewart-7xj56mkqm

Kaukab (decapitate terfs) Stewart is really, really good at not noticing things.

Username checks out.

Ooh thanks…

Stewart replied: “Well, I don’t know for a fact that they’re not, right? I mean, I can’t sit here and say that every single hospital or local board … I don’t think that it would be reasonable to expect me to have that right here and now.

oh like a group of mums on the internet could do it in a week around jobs and kids, while it’s your actual job with a department full of people and you haven’t. Oh dear they’re asking for it arent they - our little dossier needs to land on them via one of the papers 🤣🤣🤣

We can then enjoy the question- so now you’ve got the policies which are all unlawful - what is your comment on that now?

oh like a group of mums on the internet could do it in a week around jobs and kids, while it’s your actual job with a department full of people and you haven’t.

✊

I’m going to do a bit of work on generating some headlines from the policies tonight.

could one or two of you try to get the email of the journalists at the Times and the Herald who reported today on this?

Ive already got the Courier contact.

It seems like Nicola's memoir will be called "Frankly" and cost £28. 28 pounds, frankly, I rather buy a pile of tunnocks:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/b9daa813-7563-43fb-a921-8d0763467748?shareToken=b604f7e9892afe036ca114ffd0ee0eae

Sorry, @KnottyAuty I can't find email addresses for the Times journalists only a Twitter handle for the woman who wrote the article about biological sex being erased from data.

That’s 12 packs of Caramel Wafers. No contest really.

@KnottyAuty I think I have found the email addresses for both journalists at The Times. I have dm you.

Twenty eight pounds! Fuck's sake, she must have been charged a pretty penny by whoever helped her write it 🤔