NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #23

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22

Funnily enough I don't have the problem with port and starboard. Possibly because I have to give them a moments thought anyway, not just unconsciously get them wrong. Wasn't port also called larboard? Never going to get those two mixed up or misheard in the teeth of a howling gale

Wasn't port also called larboard?

Remember that from Swallows and Amazons!

My first trip on a research vessel was in the Southern Ocean and the crew was amazed that I'd never seen most of the big iconic marine animals in real before and for the entire trip, whenever someone spotted something there would be a message coming through the tannoy "IGGY, albatros starboard" or whatever but luckily when I came running onto deck there would be usually a few guys waiting for me with binoculars ready pointing me into the right direction.

Didn't the 1997 Labour Govt stay to the left because there wasn't enough seats on the other side for them all to fit?

Surely by definition the government normally has the most MPs, so you'd think that the 'government' side would have the most seats, if there was a difference between them?

Yes, but more than two parties can mean that all the opposition together with the minor parties outnumber the Govt. Hence Theresa May having a "confidence and supply" arrangement with the DUP.

My hobby sometimes involves marching whilst playing a musical instrument and I never have problems starting on the left foot. Yet I cannot give directions at all.

Straw is big yellow stems, whereas hay is basically long dried lawn clippings.

I have a degree in Maths and have taught it for many years, but I still have a problem with > and < signs. I know what they are and understand what they mean, but my brain ‘flips’ inequalities even as I double check what I am doing.
Dyslexia can have a profound impact on maths attainment, especially with greater/less than, left/right, clockwise/anticlockwise situations and problems involving inverse operations; add/subtract, multiply/divide (which is pretty much everything). Also problems involving time.
It’s often wrongly diagnosed as dyscalculia in people who have a perfectly fine understanding of number, simply adding to their problems.

There are the same number of seats on each side of the house. The government's front bench is always the bench nearest the speaker on the speaker's right. However, there are only 427 seats in the House of Commons (including the Speaker's seat) whereas there are 650 MPs, so some MPs have to stand when the house is full during the bigger debates and announcements.

@borntobequiet the >< greater than less than I never mix up they have a big wide side and a narrow side therefore 5>4
1<6

Remember back in the day when Speak n Spell and Speak n Maths were things? I had Speak n Maths. And loved playing the >< game.

I have wondered if the L / R thing was a dyslexic trate but of my two parents the one with the L / R issues most definitely isn't the dyslexic one.

Sorry, but thats just reminded me of this - U

and now I have to share it.

No, I mean that while in the process of solving inequalities my brain flips them! So I have to double check any calculations I do, even if I’ve been careful doing them.
I have seen a surprising number of people multiplying instead of dividing (and vice versa), even when they really know what to do. Mostly, they are numerate enough to spot that the answer isn’t right (so not dyscalculic), but it’s time consuming, especially in tests. More rarely, people sometimes get addition and subtraction confused (again, when you ask, they do know what they are doing).

How DH the king of no the

OTHER

left ever passed his navigation exam to get his pilot's licence I will never know. I've never struggled with left/right but I'm not a great map reader and don't have a good sense of direction whereas he is the complete opposite. 👈👉🤷‍♂️

The application hearing for all of the applications isn't until next month.

I think they said the legal teams and judge were going to meet/discuss on 15th April to agree the arrangements. It's in my diary! I'll be on holiday but will be waiting for news!

Edited to add - we will hear about the phone and Kay Searle as R3. She must be having a torrid time - although only a month or two is a lot less than Sandie had to endure.

If you make a right angle with thumb and index finger and hold it up in front of your face, the left hand will make a letter L

Re Kay Searle: someone, somewhere said “They say karma’s a bitch - I hear she’s a Terf.”

JKR I think

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1663559109881528320

See also the image in the first comment by Birdy Rose - it's fabulous

That's interesting. I have always been able to read upside down very easily but I find when something is written on a road (look left, no entry etc), I have to take a minute to think about whether it's upside down for me or not, to work out if it applies to me.

My very dyslexic son surprised his Y5 teacher by reading better upside down than the right way up. Part of his problem is that he tracks badly left to right, but much better right to left.

He may take to Arabic, if his secondary offers it.

Too old for that - he took to architecture, and is pretty successful! Apart from his drawing and design skills, like many dyslexics he has has had to develop an excellent work ethic, attention to detail, and good people skills (verbal and non verbal communication) to get by - these all pay off when you run a business.

I’ll stop derailing now!

A sailor friend taught me good port/starboard mnemonic. Port is the left side of the ship and has the same number of letters as the word left. The lights on the port side of a ship are red, like port wine. (Just waiting to be corrected by a seafarer.)

Hay us sweet meadow grasses and fine. Straw is the remaining stalks of arable crops like wheat left behind after harvesting the grain & generally used as bedding, not food.

Oh I’m well aware - my “someone, somewhere” was very much tongue in cheek - sorry, should have been less subtle 🤣

And yes Birdy Rose’s artwork is always killer! Have you seen her latest? An homage to Conspicuously Law Abiding Women:

https://thefamousartistbirdyrose.com/collections/claw

FlowchartRequired · Today 13:32

Yes, you are right about hay and straw. Back in those days (pre-car), people would be used to horses being used for transport and cavalry (linking back to the army), and they would know that horses - generally, as some will eat clean straw - eat hay and shit/piss on straw.

In the past, straw was starvation rations for military horses. Hay is much finer and greenish brown, whereas straw is thick, tough and yellow.

Interestingly, modern cows often have shredded straw mixed into their winter diet of silage, as it can make them constipated, the straw provides roughage.