NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #23

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22

I'm confused by that one - can I fess up - I need to check which is my own Left and Right, the wee L sign on my Left finger and thumb every single time.

My chances of remembering in a political sense is remote.

Are Torys right?

Yes in general tories are right wing and Labour are left. Although the differences are vanishingly small now

Thanks!

“The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) confirmed it had held no discussions with NHS Fife about the regulations that require employers to provide separate sex changing facilities.
A Freedom of Information request said the regulator had held no talks with the health board dating back to at least July 2023 about the the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/17/nhs-trust-trans-doctor-single-sex-changing-room-regulator/

Left for Labour (or Lenin).

Not that Labour is particularly left these days, but it still works as a.memory aid

It might or might not have been me because I'm not the only poster to have said it.

If you sat in the Speaker's chair in the House of Commons, Labour would be on your left and the Tories on your right.

I'm afraid not. That would have been the case up to the last election, but it isn't now. If you are in the Speaker's chair, the government is always on your right and the opposition is always on your left. So right now, Labour is on your right and the Tories are on your left (along with assorted others).

I was wondering about that, but I'm hopeless at L and R at the best of times, as are several of my relatives - we have a family joke about "Turn right here - no, not that way, OTHER right!".

Don't know if it's because I'm left-handed but I've always found which way things like nuts and bolts turn confusing. Every time I need to do up a nut or screw I'm reduced to saying 'Lefty loosy, righty tighty' to myself. DH is also left-handed and feels the same confusion.

The phrase "the other left/right" makes a regular appearance at my Scottish Country Dancing classes :)

In my experience, it turns up in pretty much all dance classes!

Or maybe that’s just because I’m in those dance classes…

🧐

I have the same problem, if I'm giving directions (which I try not to) people who know me generally ignore what I'm saying and see where I'm pointing.

I will also push/pull doors the wrong way if the signage is translucent as I'll automatically read the back to front writing.

My driving 🚗 instructor back in the day reckoned more girls have issues with left and right than boys. He was a regular Your other Left.

When DH and I are in the car doing directions it's Turn to your Side, Turn to My side.
I hated aerobics back in the day, everyone would go Left and crash cause I'd go right

I think driving instructor is probably right and my guess as to why boys have less issues with it is play football being told to dribble with L/R foot. But there again girls who danced probably get the same instructions.
So maybe I'm talking nonsense

Needspaceforlego

My female driving instructor recommended a small L and R written in biro on the back of each hand. And she also taught my brother and told him the same thing.

That's funny. I did ask the question would I be failed for going the wrong way he said No as long as you don't change your mind ie indicate one way and go the other

I know which is left and which is right just fine. I can give directions. I do sometimes have to turn maps when reading them but I can generally navigate.

What I can't necessarily do is get my body to do specific movements in a specific order. So I too had trouble in aerobics classes, though I could dance OK at a ceilidh/twmpath with a caller.

It's not the navigation or maps that's the issue. It's the words.
I managed to direct someone the wrong way less than 2mins from my house.
I knew he needed to come past 1 junction and turn to the drivers side. Then the passenger side.
But you feel a tube saying that so did the left right thing. And sent him the wrong way!

I went the other left in my driving test but they did not fail me for it as I did so correctly - at the time (this was some years ago) they didn't penalise for not knowing the difference.
I can't use sat nav because by the time I figure out what left it means I'm too late to make the turn.

I use the arrows the cars own satnav is better than the Google maps via my phone. But I can't get the cars to update.

I have "watch hand left" and other left. Good tip for DD's forthcoming driving test.

Has Upton handed over his phone yet, do we know? NC looks to be busy with Newman V Met Police next week (it must be a nightmare separating the rampaging rabbits and nebulous dogs)

.

Gosh this nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread has taken a funny turn. Which may, or may not be a right, or a left turn.
Love the cartoon, Arabella, I was thinking of tracking it down as I read through the L/R posts, and there it was

I've heard tell that in Days of Yore they used to tie bits of hay to a new soldier's left foot, and straw to his right, and teach them to march with 'HAY FOOT, STRAW FOOT'.

I'm not sure that would help me - what is the difference between hay and straw?? I'm guessing straw is more of a stalk from a cereal crop, and hay is just a kind of dried grass ['No honestly, Office, it's just a kind of dried grass!], but by the time I'd worked that out, I'd have been trampled underfoot by the entire battalion !

Yes, you are right about hay and straw. Back in those days (pre-car), people would be used to horses being used for transport and cavalry (linking back to the army), and they would know that horses - generally, as some will eat clean straw - eat hay and shit/piss on straw.

I too know left from right but mix them up when listening to or giving instructions. I was told it's s sign of dyslexia. I also if I need a two letter word when handwriting or typing any two letter word will end up in the text. I can kind of get how it happens when writing but when typing I have to select letters in a totally different part the keyboard to get it wrong.