Another GC Employment Tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #4

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gender Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM or KT: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22-23 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Miren Sagues (MS): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katie Horburgh (KH): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2
Thread #3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4990903-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-3

I'm so sorry I've already asked once but can't find the post where someone replied... please if anyone has a moment could the post the details on how to enter

MW is very proud and vocal about their bias so I'm surprised the witnesses don't crack right at the beginning!

Is the witness saying that it's acceptable for a CEO to have a bias against a belief protected under the Equality Act 😮

IF YOU ARE TRYING TO WATCH THE PROCEEDINGS AND HAVE A LINK FOR A PREVIOUS DAY THE LINK AND PASSWORD SEEM TO REMAIN THE SAME FROM DAY TO DAY. YOU DON'T NEED A FRESH ONE EACH DAY.

WANT TO WATCH INSTRUCTIONS

@lechiffre55 Told me how to get better video so updated joining instructions

Email: [email protected]

Ask for

Public access request RAdam v ERCC 4102236/2023

Mention you want video access, otherwise they'll email you to ask if you want video or attending in person access.

They'll send you an email with a link and a code and with 2 pdfs, one for watching on computer, one for tablets and phones.

Plus, want better video:

As you go through the process of logging into the meeting there's a settings button. Inside the settings there a bandwidth option near the bottom. By default it's set to medium. Setting this to high will give better video quality for those who have complained the video is too poor. It will use up more mobile data the higher it is set. I advise against setting it to ultra, high on home internet or wifi is great.

Are Roz's legal team not able to call MW as a witness?

I think they did ask for that, but MW chose not to. MW has that choice, as does this Nico character.

NC running through points on the grievance. Time taken. Lack of support offered to RA.

Can someone with legal knowledge explain how MW is able to just opt out of giving evidence, and RA's legal team aren't able to call her?

Rainbowshit
Are Roz's legal team not able to call MW as a witness?

No. Each side pick their own witnesses.

@GCITC thanks, that's baffling to me that the "prosecution" for want of a better word aren't able to call very key witnesses.

THANK YOU GOOD LADIEZ

Sonya Sodha a article described as ' transphobic poison '

It does seem like a huge flaw in the ET process. I guess you can only compel people in a criminal trial?

@BlessedKali
Thanks, I just wanted it to stand out because the thread moves so fast. HENCE THE CAPS :)

Is it actually hate speech to say transphobic without any evidence?

Some quick thoughts:

• if the "gross misconduct" email was a typo by "the apprentice," surely that is easy to demonstrate? And to get the apprentice to say in the tribunal that it was a mistake.
• Did I get it right that MW shared personal details of a relative's experience of trauma with staff? Seriously?? I thought she was "an amazing woman" who "respects boundaries". That is so far from understanding let alone respecting either professional or therapeutic boundaries.

There was a question above about why can't ERCC be inclusive of both TWAW and GC clients - and just not allocate trans / nb therapists and support workers to GC clients. I suspect the main reason is that a lot of their actual work is done in groups run for survivors. So because they are a trans inclusive service they can't guarantee that a women's group would be (biological) women only. And they can't run a separate women's only group without acknowledging that trans women are not accepted in that group.

Why do these witnesses never admit to hearing about anyone or anything outside of the company they work for. Are we honestly expected to believe that they know nothing about current affairs in such an ideological organisation. And that they pay no attention to the other half of the debate, the other half that apparently hate them and want them not to exist?

Bollocks

and I'm only caps because I am truly very thankful xxx

Wow, can't think of anything GC views are not transphobic!!!

Info is at the beginning of thread no 4, with additional info from @Boiledbeetle a bit further down same page. HTH

Onto slack

Agreed it's transphobic to say TW are biologically male!!

NC to the slack messages. Refs to LGBA and Sonia Sodha, Guardian and SSodha's transphobic poison. Do you know who she is.

MS no [course she doesn't]

NC tells her c SS. So it is clear transphobes who are going to die out refers to people with gc beliefs.

MS probably

NS if someone says something that shows they hold gc beliefs, what could they say that demonstrates that without being transphobic. Anything?

MS probably not.

NC so gc and transphobia are the same.

MS no. Transphobia is harmful to people. GC goes further. I think

....
NC TW are biologically male. Is that transphobic.

MS yes

NC thank you

It's shocking how that was hand waved away. I wouldn't be impressed about one of my relatives sharing personal info about me to work colleagues in an email. It's not okay just because you have a family connection.

I love when the witnesses can't see the issue with the slack messages

Wow wow wow