Another GC Employment Tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #4

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gender Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM or KT: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22-23 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Miren Sagues (MS): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katie Horburgh (KH): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2
Thread #3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4990903-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-3

It's instructive who can have boundaries and who can't. She seemed to pretend that she didn't understand what a boundary was earlier.

I know, but I would have been there for it with bells on.

But oh how i would have loved to watch it

... for ERCC. For us watching it would have been brilliant.

I thought she meant MW's feelings.

[Re AB saying I don't want to talk to you about this.
AB reminds me of that bolshy teenage girl at the back of the class that the teacher knows has to be kept in their awareness and managed at all times if the class is to have a hope of learning anything.]

Witness agrees email was gentle and apologetic

Timely reminder: never employ a NB person...

Witness: AB had made it clear they didn't want to talk about it

Truth.

At this point I feel sorry for DH. Everyone is entitled to legal representation but it must be difficult to mount a defence when all your witnesses are so indoctrinated by the TWAW ideology and be kind.

Anyone concerned that there will be TRAs claiming to be so upset by this Tribunal their MH is now in tatters? Going straight for the victimised, traumatised role, to try to shut down wider discussion of the implications of this?

Could MW be in talks with the Guardian right now about an article setting out how awful everyone has been to him?

Is discussion a v frightening thing?

Yes, when you don't know how they're feeling about you

Witness Email from Roz not just an apology but inviting AB to have a discussion

NC is a discussion a frightening thing

Witness : yes you don't know how they are feeling about you

This is a very good question.

I think even with that you would need to be careful to explain that a transwoman is a man who identifies as a women; you would also need to be aware that many women feel the need to please quite acutely and might well say they are happy with a transwoman, even if they are not or would prefer to have a woman given a choice. It would be extra difficult to decide that a woman was actually happy to be seen by a transwoman in an environment where the starting point is that TWAW and there is a TW CEO.

NC going to somewhere else in the documents

Oh, I don't know Sisterpita, I've come across some lawyers who take on car crash or hopeless cases with the intention of taking professional pride in getting the best outcome possible in the circumstances.

MS If I was RA I would have done the same thing, emailed RA and apologised. But this isn't an apology, this is inviting AB to have a discussion. I wouldn't have done that.

NC A discussion is a very frightening thing

MS Yes, a frightening thing with someone if you don't know how they feel about you.

NC If RA had received a brutal snub email and raised a complaint about bullying by Ab and have to go off sick to recover, would AB have been treated like RA?

MS AB/complaint would have been subject to invest.

MW says transphobia exists in the org?

MW believes Roz's communication was transphobic

@nauticant I’ve always assumed they like arguing black is white even though they can see it’s white. I can see it’s a mental challenge to see if you can outwit your opposing counsel.

this is a great witness, she is doing great eotky. exposing the madness

Every time they say Mridul I'm thinking "riddle me this".

are there any circumstances in which MW would have to step down?

Was the trans inclusive training optional then? Or only optional for MW and AB.