Another GC Employment Tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #4

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gender Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM or KT: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22-23 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Miren Sagues (MS): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katie Horburgh (KH): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2
Thread #3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4990903-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-3

Am a bit behind with the thread, so I'm sure things have moved on, but this made me think of the government's attempt to make Rwanda a safe country by passing a law saying so. How many alleged progressives defending this type of make-your-own reality in the case of self-ID and ERCC policy documents will be decrying the same hypocrisy when it comes to Rwanda - without any awareness of their inconsistency?

Witness would rather not discuss if anyone talked to MW about MW behaviour

They think trying to wriggle out of difficult questions means they dodged the question.
They don't understand how they answer or not answer or evade or tell half truths IS the evidence.

Witness, finally, I did have that chat with MW afterwards

We talked about the impact of what 'she' shares' blah blah

I think MS is just making up her interactions with MW about MW's breach of confidentiality.

this is a common TRA misconception as we know. Literal genocide.

I'm going to say I don't think that chat happened.

NC Not up to you what you share - it's up to the other person to share their info. MW shouldn't have shared.

MS It wasn't about employee or user of ercc. Just a family member.

NC No discip action against MW arising from that

MS No

NC If you or anyone had taken MW aside and said please don't, not a good thing to do, you would know

MS trying to keep confidentiality in my relationship to what i have discussed. Don't want to discuss outcome of that part unless I have to.

NC Impt cos it's a comparator. MW did something much worse and no consequences. Any consequences for MW?

MS I would never share with RA if in/formal consequences. But I did have a chat with MW

NC You told MW unacceptable breach and mustn't happen again.

MS No, talked about how MW communicated with her team and staff members and the impact of what MW says can have with people and c conversations in future. MW did not breach data or confidentiality policy.

NC Truth is, you were too much in awe of MW to have a chance of holding CEO to account

MS no

She's probably trying to think of any convo she's ever had that could equate to it even tangentially!

To be more precise: There are people who say that TWAW if they have a GRC that affords them the legal status of woman. These people are surely logically committed to saying that Rwanda is a safe country if it has the legal status 'safe country' in British legislation.

You know how in the Jo Phoenix judgement, they go through and pull out instances of when they think witnesses were just lying? 'We find it more likely that..' I'm really looking forward to reading this judgement.

NC in email, MW tells AB that what RA does is humiliating. MW jumping to conclusions RA has done wrong before any invest.

MS yes. But MW is aware of her bias agst any poss transphobic communication or anything agst the trans community and removes herself from invest.

The witness just said that MW was biased against anyone who didn't share GI

MS just gave away there that any criticism of MW's behaviour is irrelevant because "[MW] removed herself from the investigation". This is the heart of the defence by ERCC. Note that it actually doesn't serve to protect ERCC.

NC but.. but... but CEO having expressed a view in those clear terms. Wouldn't that make it problematic for nico who reports to MW to find differently.

MS No. Nico is a strong woman

The question about Spanish for non binary is genius. It shows that MS witness culture does differentiate the sex and ID of binary peeps.

This demonstrates to me that she as with the other witnesses have been given a script for the hearing.

As the CEO you need to act in a professional manner in front of staff. Clearly not fit for the Job.

[MS misnaming AB again and no one bothers to even mention it nowadays...]

MW is being eviscerated in his absence. I wonder if he thinks it might have been better to attend?

Shouldn't invalidate feelings ffs

Witness doesn't think they should invalidate the fact that AB felt humiliated etc

It would have been disastrous for MW to have attended.

Yes but good fun

It's SO unprofessional for a staff member to say I'm not going to talk to you to another member of the team!