Trans Ideology - a real life debate

[Forester1]

So something that is far too rare - a proper debate

For me positions can be summarised as:

Mark Glenening - free speech paramount - and shouldnt have compelled speech
Helen Joyce - Single sex spaces are needed - males need to keep out - however they identify
Freda Wallace - Me, me, me, my sex life, me
Peter Tatchell - Akin to fight for gay rights, black rights. I don’t see any issues. Be kind.

Helen Joyce is absobloodylutely brilliant.

But I'm sorry Helen, the absolute winner arguments for the gender critical side were
Peter Tatchell (paraphrase): You can tell everyone here has a gender identity by looking at what they're wearing. People who dress as men shouldn't be allowed in women's toilets.

Wallace's presence generally. Absolute liability, zero ability to muster a rational argument, awful behaviour, egotism through the roof.

The 'I wasn't allowed to say this' points to being pushed. If Freda had merely resigned Freda'd surely have been able to say it whenever Freda liked?

“Publicly dismantling Helen Joyce”?

#OperationLetThemSpeak

That was sublime, although is there a link to the end of the debate? It cuts off rather abruptly. I absolutely love Helen Joyce’s controlled fury!

I shall send this to my newly-terfed father, sister and friend, for discussion when I visit them all this weekend.

Helen Joyce - the absolute star took one for the team. What an uncomfortable evening having to try and have a sensible debate with those two. More sunlight for everyone else.

I’m still grinning at the memory! And while I’m sure it was a gender critical audience, she was the only panelist who was applauded after every point she made.

I have such a massive crush.

The unfairness of having a panel of five discussing the removal of women's rights comma and only one person on the panel being female was absolutely blatant. As for Peter tatchel I believe that he means well but has become sucked into this debate he and has ended up talking alone of nonsense and constantly contradicting himself full stop this is bound to happen when a person pretends that they can support women's rights and trans rights at the same time. He ought to do himself a favor and start refusing to come on to these debates because he is just making himself look and idiot, and losing any credibility he may have had for standing up for the underdog. He seems to think that the trans identified males are the underdogs here and women are somehow the ones who are privileged or top dog or have more rights than they ought to have. He's very confused, isn't he?

Is there a complete version of this as the ending is missing in this one?

I hope Freda wasn’t pushed from their job. That is unacceptable. No one should lose their livelihood over this.

Not much else really to say about the debate. Good people could talk and it stayed mainly civil. But I can see why they don’t want to talk about it. It really falls apart in daylight.

I can imagine Freda talking non-stop about Fredaself at work, and if enough patients complain, eventually management have to take action. (Just a guess, but based on Freda’s performance in this debate. Although hopefully Freda was never drunk at work, as Freda clearly is here.)

What a sorry performance by both of those opposed to the motion. Are they really the best candidates the gender defenders can come up with?

Doesn’t that rather depend on Freda’s behaviour? You don’t get a free pass regardless of behaviour just because you are trans (or at least you shouldn’t)

Yes I was left wondering what Freda actually did or said that made people concerned about Freda's professionalism. Find it hard to imagine GC people would write to Freda's employer just about Freda 'being trans' - and if they did that sort of letter would go straight in the bin, rightly so.

I looked for one on youtube but didn’t see a part 2 anywhere. It’s only been up for a few hours, so hopefully they’ll rectify it soon.

I was just thinking that. When I first started taking notice of this issue you would get the odd debate/discussion on current affairs programmes, and there was the Moral Maze. This is when the self-ID consultation was still live, I think. And there would be Jane Fae, Shon Faye, Paris Lees, Rebecca Root, Sophie Cook, Helen Belcher. Where have they all gone? If this an all out assault on trans rights wouldn’t you expect them to be all over the media making the case. But now there’s hardly anyone who will step up, just the names mentioned upthread plus a few outriders like Owen Jones who have other causes.

In that time the GC arguments have also really sharpened up. Helen Joyce is a very skilled and clear communicator.

It was a very entertaining debate and I agree with what everyone has said. Couldn’t quite believe Wallace. Tatchell seemed embarrassed and irritated, and maybe even close to peaking. I kind of admire the bravery Peter Tatchell has shown over the years but, on tonight’s showing, he’s not particularly bright. He doesn’t seem able to grasp the arguments.

The bravery Tatchell has shown over the years in saying how happy his friends are about having had sex with adults when they were young children? Paedophilia is a cause that is definitely NWORIADS, and I don't agree with the free speech guy that you should be able to say anything. Some words are dangerous, and Tatchell has said and written some such.

Sent an unsolicited adult photo of Freda boob out with a man kneeling in front of Freda appearing to give Fredas lady penis some relief, and also made remarks about getting a disabled woman's nhs file marked that she was a danger to transgender people as far as I'm aware.

Those are the two most publicised things Freda did, there may have been other things that prompted complaints.

Considering Freda was a care assistant on patient transport which is dealing with particularly vulnerable people it may be that people thought Fredas treatment of Henrietta Freeman was unacceptable and not compatible with Freda job.

The photo and the file marked comment was to the same disabled woman.

Freshstart78 · Today 00:06

I hope Freda wasn’t pushed from their job. That is unacceptable. No one should lose their livelihood over this.

What? For bullying and making a spurious complaint about a vulnerable patient? After sending unsolicited porn to a non-verbal, severely disabled woman?

Having listened to Freda’s bizarre and inappropriate “fucking/fucked” outburst, I wouldn’t be at all surprised by Freda’s lack of impulse control in any other setting, including work.

Are you up late, or early, Mavis?

Normal for me, almost bed time, but need a bath first. Retirement has been wonderful for night owlish me.

Ah! I'm on nights, we had to stay up for a job kick off presentation yesterday. They gave us a break at 2pm and I went to my bunk. They woke 2 guys up before 12; they're on 6-6 nights.

Half a dozen office bods came out to the ship, for some reason. Two of them woke me up, talking loudly, then barging into my cabin - one of them said loudly, just before, "These rooms are full of people."

So, I'm a bit weary.

Seems to be a trend here...didn't a senior officer at the OU not read the case against Jo Phoenix yet still act against her?

These people are so overconfident and so dismissive that they don't even prepare the basics.

Helen Joyce here is a combination of absolute saint and forensic barrister. Freda is just soused and pickled.