Barbra Banda

[Jezzz]

Does anyone have any information about the actual sex of this person?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12282149/amp/Zambia-striker-told-play-Womens-World-Cup-despite-failing-gender-eligibility-test.html

Very suspicious tbh. Sounds like another caster semenya case.

I've not found anything definite.

My supposition is very likely 5-ARD DSD male like Semenya - we could narrow it down by determining what exactly the rules being breached were.

If it's like the IAAF/World Athletics ones, then just "high testosterone" is not sufficient - there would need to be SRY genes in there. High testosterone might trigger a sex check, but it's not inherently disqualifying, generally. The "testosterone lowering rules" Semenya complains about are actually a provision given to DSD males like transwomen to give them a way to get in to a category they shouldn't really qualify for at all - "you can get in, as long as you lower your testosterone". But real women have no testosterone limit.

As far as I gather FIFA suspended its rules in 2019, and they're reviewing them.

Sources: https://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/fifa-fails-to-remove-gender-verification-rules/
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/21/fifa-to-review-its-gender-eligibility-regulations-in-wake-of-fina-ruling

Which means they're in a similar situation to where athletics was in the early 2010s, where the lack of rules meant a free-for-all flood of 5-ARD athletes,leading to 3 males on the women's podium at the 2016 Olympics 800m.

Anywhere there is lack of sex testing, it's the easiest thing in the world to find some fully-capable 5-ARD males and claim they're "women with high testosterone" and do the song and dance that Semenya did. So likely the case here.

Here it seems some regional bodies are still being stricter than FIFA, but we'd need details.

You'd think the African Cup of Nations ban would trigger a FIFA investigation. If whatever caused the African gender ban doesn't breech FIFA rules they should say so. Tongues will be wagging every time Banda comes out to play.

It could have been dealt with so easily now they're just focusing negativity towards the women's game.

BBC article doesn't clarify. Perhaps unsurprisingly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/africa/66191557

I just assume naturally high testosterone means BB shouldn’t be playing in the women’s game. It’s their way of obfuscating sex.

AP article no better.

https://apnews.com/article/zambia-banda-womens-world-cup-79520a0f06bf1c91a18fbeacfdd2fbec

Seems to have a baked-in assumption that anyone being excluded from a woman's sport is "mistreatment" or a "flaw".

Although there is a point in there about lack of clarity/consistency on rules. FIFA and football generally indeed worse than other sports which are at least more solid, whether or not they're being fair to women.

But yes, there should be zero trust here. The press has had hundreds of opportunities to admit Semenya is male, and haven't, so Occam's Razor says that any woman with "naturally high testosterone" is also being excluded for being male. That's what they call men in these situations.

And if they're going to bring up Semenya as a "similar case", then who are we to argue...?

Thanks for starting this thread. Absolutely infuriating that FIFA has allowed this to happen. Huge shadow over the game when it's becoming more and more popular.

Zambia played Germany, one of the top teams in the world, last week and Banda scored two goals by outpacing Germany's defence so dramatically it was clear Banda wasn't the same sex as the other players. Banda was also so over-the-top aggressive when trying to get the ball that it was making the German players visibly uncomfortable.

There is a reason 'she' hasn't been recruited by the WSL/other big Euro leagues.

I found that BBC article more a promotion of Banda than journalism.
Reminded me of the early Caster articles about Caster’s brave struggles for acceptance and so on.

If Barbra Banda (and three other squad members) failed gender verification test that must mean BB is male with a DSD. BB looks very obviously male despite small stature. I am glad that the women's AfCON were having none of it. FIFA need to get their arses in gear or this scandal will overshadow the whole competition.

Women can't fail a "woman" test, ergo, this is not a woman. Grossly unfair to all those women playing against this team, the woman who was bumped rom BB's team and BB's team mates who will have to change in front of a non-woman.

Are there any signs that the German side/sport will stand up against it? Their government just blocked self-ID, so I would imagine that they aren't thrilled.

I hope Zambia win the competition and everyone in the world can see the farce for what it is. More sunlight. Perhaps they'll even have to come clean about Caster.

The Bbc article really annoyed me as this was a clear example of an issue which is definitely about biological sex and how it affects the body, rather than social or legal or any other aspect of gender (as explained so clearly by the doctor interviewed on inside science). But the bbc article was all about gender testing....

I read the BBC article yesterday, they were practically falling over themselves to not say what was going on with this person. I agree it's likely another Semenya situation.

How can you test gender? Really, when it comes down to it, the authorities making the decisions need to say what they mean - SEX can be determined by genetic testing/etc, so say that!

The other issue is that currently, under the current Sports Australia policy, anyone who feels like a woman or girl can play in a female category of sport. That is due to Julia Gillard’s efforts in having gender written into the Anti-discrimination act after attending Yogyakarta in 2013.

And Kieran Perkins is disappointingly TWAW. Now that was a disappointment to hear, but maybe he is just paying lip service as he is the head of sports and has to follow the law (but I think he is a genuine follower of that mantra).

The latest policy was reaffirming inclusivity not fairness. And it was pointed out that an athlete could take a federation to court in Australia to force their eligibility to play and likely win. it is as yet untested, it will be interesting to see though how many sporting federations will now not do their women’s internationals in Australia because of this. And considering Australia is hosting the 2032 Olympics, this needs to be well sorted by then.

So, if FIFA hasn’t made the policy yet, Australia will be Banda’s haven for this cup.

And yes, I am fully aware that Banda most likely has a DSD. My point still stands if Banda says they are a woman, that is all that is needed in Australia legally at the moment.

Ditto.
The whole farrago pisses me off.

The collusion of the press in failing to accurately investigate & report on this is so frustrating. Weak, ineffective and completely at odds with their "neither fear nor favour" mantra.
Challenging the Putins and Trumps of the world but complete capitulation to the men who say they're women lot. Just shows how powerful this lobby is.

I don't understand why all athletes aren't just asked to give a blood sample and chromosomes tested. Wouldn't this just solve this problem? It would only need to be done once.

Athletes are drug tested, I assume initially urine and then bloods if something shows up? So it isn't as if it's major to have bloods taken.

I was also shocked to read that women had to have their genitals inspected - has a man ever had to do this?

Anyway, perhaps it's about time a country stood up to this. Especially to the awful and corrupt FIFA, perhaps Germany could lead the way and other countries would follow.

If Zambia do well...

World media will be covering the story, however coyly, and the truth will come out. This could end up peaking Australia, considering the very strong fairness ethos in the culture.

National federations of countries with a chance of winning will not stand for this, if only because of the stink it will cause back home. Football is huge.

Some female footballers are going to have their commitment to males in women's football tested.

Even though some African media are playing along with the farce, the authorities of the WAfCON can't be gaslit about race, for obvious reasons.

It's even simpler, a cheek swab is all that is required to verify female sex.
They don't want to solve what they don't see as a problem.

Hubbard and Thomas already are very well known in Australia. All my friends and family know who they are.

The issue at the moment is the Anti-discrimination Act. It is unlikely though with the Albanese government that any change can be pushed through. (I would love someone to tell me that the Act is not going to be an issue.) And at the moment all the media is taken up with debate about the upcoming referendum.

If Zambia make it to the finals, it might reawaken the outrage people felt with Hubbard and Thomas. Otherwise, I am not confident sadly.

The players get increased sums (tens of thousands up to six figures each) as they progress. Even if Banda and co make it through one or two rounds it means a team of women who have fought their whole lives to get to this point will be screwed out of serious money.

@Helleofabore
Good points. (Sadly.) Quite a lot has happened since Hubbard and Thomas were in the news and I hope the fact that it is football, that it is one more example, may tip public opinion over the edge and push politicians into a rethink. Although if the public have accepted this unfairness in swimming, which they care about so much... It's a shame Tickle Vs Giggle has not yet been adjudicated.

It is a shame about Giggle and Tickle. But I fear that Sal will not win that case.

If this reawakens public pushback, I will be so pleased. However, I suspect it will be but a blip unless Zambia win. I think that many will just write off the Matildas as not being good enough if they lost to Zambia.