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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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21
megletthesecond · 19/07/2023 08:50

Their Wiki page also says they boxed prior to football. Winning all bouts and other women then refused to fight with her. Dear God.

WickedSerious · 19/07/2023 10:00

Let's shove a man into every team to make it fair.

RudsyFarmer · 19/07/2023 10:07

Zooming in on the Zambian team photo is interesting.

I thought it was a known thing that some countries purposely scouted people with known alternative characteristics knowing it made them particularly good at women’s sports? I’ve seen links to it on here.

shropshirewitch · 19/07/2023 10:29

That's not even a case of "looks masculine" (I'm thinking of Fatima Whitbread for example), that's a man.

KiteofUncertainty · 19/07/2023 10:40

puffyisgood · 19/07/2023 08:48

I don't love this (what with BB being male and all) but can't bring myself to get too excited about it, at the end of the day there was still room for 22 other players in BB's country's world cup squad, and whilst he'll doubtless bang in a couple of goals I can't think that the rest of the team will be strong enough to influence who qualifies for later rounds etc.

There were three other players in the Zambia squad who failed the gender eligibility tests last year. Strength and speed are very important in football.

Either the competition is for women, or it's not. Either it's fair, or it's not.

There were four women who did not get the chance to earn a minimum of £23,000 - hard currency. Perhaps Zambia wouldn't even have qualified for the WWC if it wasn't for the male players. In which case there is a squad of 23 women players from another country who have missed out. It should matter to you.

puffyisgood · 19/07/2023 10:52

KiteofUncertainty · 19/07/2023 10:40

There were three other players in the Zambia squad who failed the gender eligibility tests last year. Strength and speed are very important in football.

Either the competition is for women, or it's not. Either it's fair, or it's not.

There were four women who did not get the chance to earn a minimum of £23,000 - hard currency. Perhaps Zambia wouldn't even have qualified for the WWC if it wasn't for the male players. In which case there is a squad of 23 women players from another country who have missed out. It should matter to you.

I might be wrong on this but I THINK that Zambia qualified through good performance in the American cup of Nations and I THINK that this tournament has a 'no men' rule, meaning that BB didn't play... FIFA's stance on this is notably different from that of CAF in that they let teams self assess (no, I'm not joking), hence BB being cleared to play.

puffyisgood · 19/07/2023 10:53

puffyisgood · 19/07/2023 10:52

I might be wrong on this but I THINK that Zambia qualified through good performance in the American cup of Nations and I THINK that this tournament has a 'no men' rule, meaning that BB didn't play... FIFA's stance on this is notably different from that of CAF in that they let teams self assess (no, I'm not joking), hence BB being cleared to play.

sorry, African cup of Nations, obviously

Bosky · 19/07/2023 10:54

What is going on with that video embedded in the Daily Mail article?

Women's World Cup striker who shot Zambia to shock win over Germany is told she CAN play in Australia - despite failing a 'gender eligibility test' - because FIFA let teams do their own investigations

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12282149/Zambia-striker-told-play-Womens-World-Cup-despite-failing-gender-eligibility-test.html

Video title
"France train for opener game in the Women's World Cup against Jamaica"

Screenshot of video thumbnail attached.

There is no mention of France in the article.

The same video on YouTube - the thumbnail is taken from 61 seconds in - starts here:

France train as Jamaica World Cup opener looms | 2023 Women's World Cup

Video Description:

16 Jul 2023
France trained in Glenwood, Australia on Sunday ahead of their opening game of the Women’s World Cup against Jamaica.

The team's preparations have received another injury blow, with defender Selma Bacha leaving the pitch in tears and on a stretcher in the final minutes of a warm-up game against Australia.

It's not the first big loss for 'Les Bleues', as forwards Delphine Cascarino and Marie-Antoinette Katoto were recently ruled out of the tournament through injury.

Currently fifth in the FIFA world rankings, Herve Renard's side will begin their Group F fixtures with a game against Jamaica at Sydney Football Stadium on 23rd July.

France will then play against South American champions Brazil on 29th July before facing Women's World Cup debutants Panama on 2nd August.

DO NOT copy and re-upload any part of this video anywhere otherwise copyright strikes will be made! You do not have my permission
--

Presumably the Daily Mail did not read the last line of the video description?

Barbra Banda
puffyisgood · 19/07/2023 11:27

@Bosky - you mean the player in the middle of that video still? I know what you mean, but I wouldn't want to get into that at all - some women, real women, are very tall, have high hairlines, aren't conventionally 'feminine' in terms of their faces or physique, etc... e.g. in athletics Maria Mutola competed in an era when sex testing was standard and didn't look at all conventionally feminine... It's up to the powers-that-be to do proper sex testing and be unflinchingly fair and make sure that only women are in women's sport, it's not for us to engage in speculation.

KiteofUncertainty · 19/07/2023 11:31

puffyisgood · 19/07/2023 10:53

sorry, African cup of Nations, obviously

OK, I accept that Zambia's route to WWC qualification was not affected by having males in the team.

But they beat Germany - a top European side - with Banda playing a significant part. Banda is their best player and is likely, along with the other three male players, to be influential in their games. None of them should be eligible and it's a disgrace that Fifa allow it. I can't understand why you don't see the unfairness. Do you have any interest in sport?

KiteofUncertainty · 19/07/2023 11:34

@puffyisgood
It's up to the powers-that-be to do proper sex testing and be unflinchingly fair and make sure that only women are in women's sport,

I agree. I'm trying to understand how that squares with you shrugging at males being in a female sports team.

puffyisgood · 19/07/2023 11:43

KiteofUncertainty · 19/07/2023 11:34

@puffyisgood
It's up to the powers-that-be to do proper sex testing and be unflinchingly fair and make sure that only women are in women's sport,

I agree. I'm trying to understand how that squares with you shrugging at males being in a female sports team.

Don't get me wrong, it's not great, but there's a significant difference between isolated male player[s] within the squad of an also-ran nation and the very most egregious examples, notably say the 800m in the Brazil olympics, with an entire podium, all three medals, cleaned up by male athletes, in a sport where the countries in question were sending one competitor each.

Bosky · 19/07/2023 12:02

puffyisgood · 19/07/2023 11:29

Thanks, that makes sense.

What is weird is that the video has been included in the Banda article.

Maybe Renard was mistaken for Banda? Although the fact that it is the French not Zambian team should have been a clue.

Bosky · 19/07/2023 12:06

puffyisgood · 19/07/2023 11:43

Don't get me wrong, it's not great, but there's a significant difference between isolated male player[s] within the squad of an also-ran nation and the very most egregious examples, notably say the 800m in the Brazil olympics, with an entire podium, all three medals, cleaned up by male athletes, in a sport where the countries in question were sending one competitor each.

"it's not great, but there's a significant difference between isolated male player[s] within the squad of an also-ran nation and the very most egregious examples, notably say the 800m in the Brazil olympics"

No, it's not good enough whenever and wherever it happens.

All women matter and all women's sport matters.

pues · 19/07/2023 13:33

Banda has just signed a professional contract in Spain so he must be highly rated. Why aren't our women players picking up on this cheating?

pues · 19/07/2023 14:08

And Zambia are in a group with Spain Japan and Costa Rica so that will be interesting. One player ( or maybe 2 or 3) can really influence a game (especially if they're male)

puffyisgood · 19/07/2023 14:21

pues · 19/07/2023 14:08

And Zambia are in a group with Spain Japan and Costa Rica so that will be interesting. One player ( or maybe 2 or 3) can really influence a game (especially if they're male)

well, it's possible. in one of the olympics games, zambia lost 10-3 to netherlands, the zambian 3 being scored by guess who? it doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility that he could be the deciding factor in an otherwise tight game. maybe against japan or costa rica?

MattDamon · 19/07/2023 14:29

pues · 19/07/2023 13:33

Banda has just signed a professional contract in Spain so he must be highly rated. Why aren't our women players picking up on this cheating?

Link? Banda was in talks with Real Madrid last year but they bailed due to questions about 'her' sex.

pues · 19/07/2023 14:42

Sorry- he played for a Spanish team before moving to China where he won the golden boot for top scorer.
Two goals against Germany recently...

Barbra Banda
pues · 20/07/2023 07:51

We must keep this in the public eye.

MattDamon · 20/07/2023 09:23

Telegraph covering it: https://archive.li/26Azz

As a side note, brilliant to see a mainstream news source referring to Castor as 'genetically male'.

MattDamon · 20/07/2023 09:24

*Caster

KiteofUncertainty · 20/07/2023 09:31

MattDamon · 20/07/2023 09:23

Telegraph covering it: https://archive.li/26Azz

As a side note, brilliant to see a mainstream news source referring to Castor as 'genetically male'.

Excellent.
@pues
I agree. Sunlight.

Boiledeggandtoast · 20/07/2023 10:45

Many thanks for the link MattDamon. Good article and as you say, great to see the reference to CS as "genetically male".