Scottish Parliament final debate on Gender Recognition Reform today

[ArabellaScott]

At some point after 2pm, in the Big Room (the Chamber).

www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/whats-on-and-watch-live/whats-on#wm

Will be interesting to see how the Amendments go down, if they are all struck down as the ScotGov wishes - www.holyrood.com/news/view,gender-recognition-reform-crunch-vote-after-shona-robison-warns-msps-over-amendments

'the Scottish Conservatives have warned that the debate could lead to a "travesty of democracy" because a 15 minute time limit for each proposal will "shut down" discussion.'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64032916

I'm prepared to change sex with my wee floppy bit of paper a couple of times a year, just to keep the bastards buried in red fucking tape. Civil disobedience runs in my veins.

Yep, same. What I really want is a non-binary certificate. Imagine how much fuckery one could cause with that.

Maybe there needs to be a massive rebellion of women identifying as men and invading their spaces. You could even join the Freemasons!

Same here. I want to move to England and if feels like Gettin out of Gilead.

mobile.twitter.com/RoddyQC/status/1605328708419600384

His comment on Russell Find.Amy’s proposed amendment on sex offenders that was voted down

“Well. I thought there was no sensible reason anyone could oppose that amendment. 64 of our elected representatives thought otherwise. I - sincerely - hope that I am wrong, and they are right. But, regardless, I will never understand why this was a risk they thought worth taking.”

Live tweeting still continuing from

Lucy Hunter Blackburn from MBM:
twitter.com/lucyhunterb

This was an amendment specifically about sex offenders charged with a sexual offence abusing self-id to legally change sex while awaiting trial. It would not have prevented them from availing themselves of the new process afterwards, even if convicted.

The government has argued that no sex offender will abuse self-id, so why not allow this? The argument that it isn't lawful to restrict someone's rights while awaiting trial is abject nonsense - all kinds of restrictions can be placed on defendants awaiting and going through trial.

'Nine groups will have been covered with 10 more to go. These include a group with a large number of amendments on the Equality Act (round midnight?).'

Epic tweeting from Lucy HunterBlackburn.

I believe this is the intended framework. Not for sex offenders per se - but even when this Bill goes through, it is only the beginning.

The trans lobby groups and orgs, and the Scottish Greens have openly admitted that more changes will be demanded in future. They want 'non-binary and gender fluid identities' to be able to obtain GRCs. A GRC process that enables people to keep applying for a new one each time their identity changes is why the current proposals are the way they are. It's the starting point for the next set of activist demands.

Next time they will demand that even the flimsy criteria that could criminalise people should be dropped, else how could those poor oppressed enbies live their authentic lives without being able to apply for a new GRC every few months.

This is a nightmare

😔

The trans lobby groups and orgs, and the Scottish Greens have openly admitted that more changes will be demanded in future. They want 'non-binary and gender fluid identities' to be able to obtain GRCs. A GRC process that enables people to keep applying for a new one each time their identity changes is why the current proposals are the way they are. It's the starting point for the next set of activist demands.

The draft law in Germany allows for an annual change of legal sex as well as name.

(Bear in mind that it is extremely difficult for ordinary citizens to change their name in Germany. It requires going to court and is rarely successful if applicants cannot show a convincing and real need. And it's virtually if not actually impossible to do this more than once.)

This proposed annual change is coupled with punitive measures for private persons who do not accept that a particular person has changed sex. In the explanation for this provision, family members are specifically mentioned as one intended target of this measure. The fine is €2500 I think.

Now put the two together. An abuser's wet dream is what this is.

So, yes, absolutely expect that this Bill can and will get worse.

“This proposed annual change is coupled with punitive measures for private persons who do not accept that a particular person has changed sex. In the explanation for this provision, family members are specifically mentioned as one intended target of this measure. The fine is €2500 I think.”

I cannot wait for the first German court case with this ridiculous law.

Absolutely! Thanks so much.

Parliament suspended for the night, rather than pushing on until 2am as originally predicted. That means they have only tomorrow to push through all the remaining amendments and have a vote. This is insane.

I realise this is a question that should have occurred to me a long long time ago but why the hell is the GRA devolved anyway? Especially as the EA isn't 😵‍💫

My dad is Scottish, I wanted independence so I could get European citizenship eventually, now I want nothing to do with the place and I'm glad I was born in England.
What an absolute bunch of cowards and charlatans.
Shame on you all.
This is a fucking disgrace.
Protecting rapists over women and children? These people have no shame to speak of.
I've seen the arguement it doesn't change anything, if so why bother? It obviously does change things and none of it is good for women.
Shame on you Nicola sturgeon and everyone else voting for this dangerous nonsense.

Clutching at straws but any chance all these amendments failing will tip the scales on bill itself.
If it does go through, do the drafters then have to work out how to express living as opposite sex in legalese?

Good question. Maybe this could be the basis of a legal challenge, seeing as this bullshit will affect the rest of the UK.
I cannot believe what is happening and I'll hold on to any hope that this madness can be stopped one way or another.

I had a look in the edinburgh library thesis collection and I can’t actually find Maggie chapman’s thesis. So it looks like she never finished the bloody thing.

She didn’t ‘clarify’ the lack of finishing a PhD until 2015 though according to Wikipedia do presumably there was a need to clarify that bit of misinformation.

Here's an archived copy of Lucy's live tweets from Tuesday's marathon session: archive.ph/YjZ5h

The Guardian's report: www.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/20/scottish-transgender-reform-looks-imminent-after-marathon-holyrood-debate

Excuse my ignorance, but assuming the bill is passed tom, is there anything else that can be done such as appeals or legal challenges?

I'm hoping that For Women Scotland will appeal the ruling that a person with a GRC is their chosen sex at all times.

Also hoping that Westminster government will put a spanner in the works as it'll have to be made to fit with law in the rest of the UK .

I really hope so. As a lifelong labour voter I cannot believe that I am now relying on the Tory party to protect my rights as a woman.