Scottish Parliament final debate on Gender Recognition Reform today

[ArabellaScott]

At some point after 2pm, in the Big Room (the Chamber).

www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/whats-on-and-watch-live/whats-on#wm

Will be interesting to see how the Amendments go down, if they are all struck down as the ScotGov wishes - www.holyrood.com/news/view,gender-recognition-reform-crunch-vote-after-shona-robison-warns-msps-over-amendments

'the Scottish Conservatives have warned that the debate could lead to a "travesty of democracy" because a 15 minute time limit for each proposal will "shut down" discussion.'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64032916

They are listed here, with a rough timetable.

It will be still going on, I expect - the two things I really wanted to see were the age reduction and the safeguarding wrt sex offenders. Which were first up.

www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/bills/gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill/stage-3

Thank you @ArabellaScott for all the updates this evening. It’s almost unbearable to listen to.

Nobody should have the right to falsify their birth certificate. Enough of the deceit and dishonesty. No magical thinking can turn a male person into a female person or a female person into a male person. Repeal the the sexist, homophobic GRA.

Christ, just read this. My heart fucking breaks, it really does:

mobile.twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1605269386608123926?cxt=HHwWrICx2ZCAiMcsAAAA

'One protester is shouting "you couldn't arrest my rapist but you're going to arrest me" as they are escorted from the chamber following an outburst. Apparently some were threatened with arrest.'

What ARE they thinking?

Revolting, aren't they?

They care more about the feelings of rapists and paedophiles than the safety of women and girls.

Even if they do believe the risk of sex offenders abusing self ID is ''tiny'', what's the harm in putting safeguards in place to prevent it? Who is that hurting?!

Maggie Chapman still wants to hand out GRCs like sweeties. No barriers, no objections. Just a free for all.

What I really want to know is whether one can change back. This seems really crucial.

Maggie Chapman argued, as I understand it, that it would be 'offensive' to ask a trans person if they were a sex offender.

Better to keep it short and sweet, I think. You don't need to make a full critique covering every aspect.

The crucial point is that this is bad legislation which enables rapists.

It is entirely predictable that predators will exploit it to identify into women's spaces and that this will lead to an increase in sexual and other assaults.

The other crucial point to make is that you will never vote for them again if they support the bill tomorrow.

(I think it's unlikely MSPs will be reading their email much tomorrow. It would be better to phone them if possible, though it's also not likely you'll be able to get hold of them personally. I don't know whether their office numbers are public.)

Yes. My emails have got shorter and shorter. They should be aware of the arguments from, for example, the UN special rapporteur.

As I understand it, there is no mechanism for “changing back”. It will be an offence not to live as your chosen sex. But since there is no definition of what it means to "live in your acquired gender”, I don’t understand how that could ever be enforced.

Reports of SNP members shouting 'we want to get home' during the proceedings. They're hell bent on pushing this through today/tomorrow and just aren't interested in discussing the amendments in any way. This is democracy in Scotland now.

I haven’t had an opportunity to read this thread today but it would seem that there is no hope. So much for the amendments.

Patrick Harvie ranting here about homophobia and moral panic.

mobile.twitter.com/scottishgreens/status/1605293782618066953

My understanding is that this is a "solemn undertaking" that you cannot revoke. That is until you want to.

The Scottish Government have said that in order to reverse a GRC an individual simply needs to go through the same process in reverse.

However,they refused to include this in the bill, even when it was pointed out to them that the threat of penalty for a false declaration would act as a deterrent for vulnerable people (especially around the added risk by lowering the age).

in addition, the way it has been phrased indicates that while you can reverse a GRC by going through the process again, an individual would end up with another GRC (albeit one in their birth sex) - ie there is no way to annul a GRC. The Scottish Government has refused to clarify this point.

What a blooming mess. Even for a supporter of self ID, are they really satisfied with so many loose ends, unanswered questions, fudges, vague points and uncertainties?

For anyone who is looking for a much needed laugh -

twitter.com/shiny02/status/1604846074182524929?s=20&t=JeQJzAToLrq4vxpClLjwYw

'I AM PATRICK HARVIE! HE/HIM!

Nothing is going to be settled if they force it through. Nothing. Because men still won’t be women.

I don't think there is a mechanism for "changing back" but there doesn't seem to be anything to prevent anyone from flipping their gender again in the future, just that they "live" in the desired gender for three months. I think this is a potential problem with offenders who wish to hide from the authorities in the future as they can now legally create new identities every six months.

So effectively the Hokey Kokey GRC. You put your left leg in ...........

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64043949

The GRC reversal question was brought up in a meeting with the GRUnit, then again in writing with the GRUnit and again in a private evidence session with the committee (and possibly on other occasions as well that I’m not aware of). With the exception of the Tories, who have understood the issues, it has been brushed aside at each point with an airy “Oh, it will be as straightforward to reverse as it will be to obtain”.

It is a bit of a bugbear of mine.

The legislation is being rushed and is likely to be of poor quality. Yet again, it will be left to the Courts to try and make sense of it.

Thanks, rogdmum.

I ask partly because I wonder how many women might be up for changing gender regularly if it were easy enough to undo it.

Might be a good way to bring it up at the Christmas dinner table, ask what sex everyone is planning to be in the coming year?