Men of the far right and the women's movement

[SapphosRock]

Excellent article from Jean Hatchett about the recent fascism debate.

https://thecritic.co.uk/men-of-the-far-right-and-the-womens-movement/

This bit really struck me:

On one side of the fence are aggressive men screaming “fascist” at women who are clearly not. On the other side, skulking in the shadows, beneath the banners of women, are men who clearly are.

I wish you’d bring your pig to my door (super safe Labour seat so no one political has ever bothered to knock on)

This bit from the Brighton Real Feminist™ page is interesting:

Women of all backgrounds and walks of life are welcome to attend our events. We respect plurality of thought and belief, and ask that our legally-protected belief in the lifelong social impact of sex also be respected.

Is this true? Would KJK be welcome to attend? What about Sophie C or the HoO filming woman?

I await an answer on this. Because it has also been noted before.

You would think though, since they have made this statement that they will have a clear process on how they can do this, while identifying just who is to be denounced and still denounce effectively enough to be acceptable anyone who is deemed denouncable.

They forgot the footnote.

…We respect plurality of thought and belief*…

*unless it is anything related to the bad thoughts and believes gathered under THE LINK‘

I will approve your repentance if I deem your politics acceptable. Please submit voting records library borrowing history and a list of direct debits to the usual address. Thank you.

Of course these women would be allowed to attend. The group is for all women, not just GC feminists.

KJK etc would not be allowed to film the event and put the video on a far right website alongside Tommy Robinson.

Surely you can see the difference?

Now you’re just lying Sapphos.

KJK did not upload the video of the Brighton event onto a far right website.

If you have to resort to lies, don’t expect people to take you seriously!

"Mummy, do I have to go to the denouncing?"

"Yes, or I'll denounce you! Now go and get the Anti-Fascist Pig."

Snapshot of life in a Real Feminist household.

If you have to resort to lies, don’t expect people to take you seriously!

To be fair, this is exactly the way these threads seem to go. Call for KJK to be denounced. When challenged, come up with irrational and illogical arguments for which neither reason or evidence can be supplied. Ignore all counter-evidence. Refuse to answer questions. Accuse interlocuters of fascism. Lie. Repeat.

Trouble is, the tactics are all so very familiar from years of dealing with TRAs. It's too easy now to see what you're doing. It's not going to work.

If you really care about women's rights, then stop trying to divide and destroy the movement.

So filming is forbidden at these events? Do women have to hand in their phones at the door?

Now you’re just lying Sapphos.

Just like when she "interpreted" a video of Andy Ngo talking to Nigel Farage as "saying that black and brown people want to destroy the United States" when it said nothing of the sort.

Women don't need to hand in their phones at the door.

Is filming forbidden? If somebody took out their phone and started filming they would be asked to stop. Or at least asked who they were, why are they filming and what are they planning to do with the footage.

If you really care about women's rights, then stop trying to divide and destroy the movement.

Excellent point.

And no, we’re not saying you can’t point out potential issues or problems. But remain factual and present well researched, concrete evidence.

Lies and slurs don’t help (talking generally here).

Is filming forbidden? If somebody took out their phone and started filming they would be asked to stop. Or at least asked who they were, why are they filming and what are they planning to do with the footage.

Yes, it's a completely different approach to holding a speaking event. You do you, and other people will do what they feel is more effective.

Who is lying?

We are having a theoretical discussion about whether PP would be allowed to attend the feminist events in Brighton.

I confirmed that KJK and any women associated with Hearts of Oak could attend Brighton's feminists event.

I said they wouldn't be allowed to film the event and post it on far right websites.

Hearts of Oak did film the SFW event and put it on their website and social media alongside a post praising Tommy Robinson.

Well that's fine for a private meeting. For a public rally where the idea is to let women speak, it wouldn't work at all. You can't expect KJK to run public rallies as though they were private meetings.

Just don't go if you don't want to speak in public.

I've been reading this thread with interest and maybe it's the pig theme that's set me off but the more I read the more I'm reminded of this quote from Animal Farm

“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

Because when I look at what TAs say and I look at what so many of the self appointed real feminists say all I really see is two cheeks of the same arse...

You, Sapphos, said

”KJK etc would not be allowed to film the event and put the video on a far right website alongside Tommy Robinson.”

Implying that she had done so with the Brighton event. You really are clutching at straws now.

I'm afraid that's your poor reading comprehension WildIris.

No, I’m afraid, Sapphos, it is your repeated underhanded digs to discredit someone you’ve made clear in the past that you hate.

Like I said, clutching at straws.

Go well.

It really isn’t Saph. WildIris’ understanding is due to how you constructed the sentence.

IIRC correctly the same happened on the CMK thread?

I read it the same way as WildIris, exactly as you intended.

I'm afraid that's your poor reading comprehension WildIris

No it isn't, it was underhand and disingenuous.

As Helen Joyce said;

And the idea that the best way to do that is to wait until the GC left throttles the genderist left is, frankly, absurd. It will be far quicker to go around them than to try to bring them round. Outside the left almost everyone understands, once they know what’s going on, that gender-identity ideology is idiotic and dangerous. So do an increasing number of Tory MPs and ministers.

In a democracy the quickest way to change policies is to influence the administration, legislature and voters. Right now that’s best done by talking to the centre and mainstream right, and leaving left-wingers to fight among themselves.

Gosh, she really is a sensible woman, isn’t she?

I proper love HJ. Unashamedly.

Let’s hope she doesn’t get radicalised into Fascism any time soon or all of youse lot will have to loudly and repeatedly denounce me for my crypto-fascism.