Men of the far right and the women's movement

[SapphosRock]

Excellent article from Jean Hatchett about the recent fascism debate.

https://thecritic.co.uk/men-of-the-far-right-and-the-womens-movement/

This bit really struck me:

On one side of the fence are aggressive men screaming “fascist” at women who are clearly not. On the other side, skulking in the shadows, beneath the banners of women, are men who clearly are.

Right wing authoritarianism versus left wing authoritariansim. Spot the difference. Right wing authoritariasm is easily identifiable and can be swerved. Left wing autoritarianism wears a cloak of moral virtue and more easily slips under the radar. But we see you.

I think it’s unreasonable to compare Standing for Women events with Twitter and Facebook as free speech platforms. Twitter, Facebook and the rest are all designed to keep us hooked and get money from adverts. Standing in a park once a month listening to some people talking isn’t the same. You’re a lot less likely to get the volume of extremists to take over.

To regurgitate a classic meme:

Exactly. Talk about staring you in the bloody face.

it's left-wing activists who want to shut women up and close down their campaigning. Not fucking fascists.

How does the thread unintentionally demonstrate it?

I was going to say the article demostrates it and then changed my mind at the last minute as I didn’t want to single out an individual for criticism! Oops. Honestly, I think the article is an example of the kind of power plays which have ruined many political parties, unions, knitting circles, small businesses etc. when the games start escalating. I think Posie’s right to avoid that by having a robust stance on free speech.

Do some women want to see women's rights movement destroyed because they're so pissed off and jealous that they aren't getting the headlines? Are they so willing to lie and feed the likes of spiteful Owen Jones rather than congratulate another woman?

After the last week or so, I think the only possible answer must be... yes.

Actually, I don't think they want the women's rights movement destroyed. Just Posie. The rest of us are just collaterol damage. They absolutely hate her. It's really pathetic. As the week has gone on, I've gone from raised eyebrows at some of the comments to being absolutely appalled by the endless bloody bullying and bullshit that's coming from the self-appointed feminist leaders. Why do they hate KJK so much? Because she's effective. And they are all now grifting off of opposing gender ideology. So if KJK (i.e. women) wins, they lose.

I didn't want to think it, but they keep on shoving it in our faces.

Whilst that may be true, KJK isn't an organisation, or political movement, or an online forum, or anything other than herself and her personal desire to stop children being mutilated by trans ideology.

She's also mighty contemptuous of the people pushing it.

She's single issue about this. There's no room for anyone to talk about anything else. As she has just said on her YouTube channel, they're listening to me, I'm not bloody listening to them.

What she does is give a microphone to women who have been affected by this ideology. It's simple, and entirely ring fenced just to that. Even feeling creative, I can't imagine how fascistic political leanings would infiltrate it.

Not to mention what an absolutely disgusting move it is to ignore the brilliant women who spoke at Brighton, who bravely stood up and found their voice in the face of hundreds of screaming and violent protestors, and told their stories of how this ideology is harming them and their kids.

And instead of applauding those women and amplifying their voices, feminists are doing their best to shut them down. Because a couple of blokes with a camera and questionable views turned up.

It's disgusting and I won't forget this.

Considering that article makes a point out of trying to make out that those two men were 'allowed' into some kind of inner circle, it needs to be pointed out, yet again as it has been already repeated consistently, it is very easy to get in and get a good spot.

Really! It is not hard to understand this once you have been a couple of times. Some arsey people could just walk up and push their way forward as well.

And if Jean and other's pushing and pushing this point don't know this, and don't understand this, why not? Is it because they have never actually turned up before? But are very keen to point out something that is not relevant? why?

Plus, there is now people pointing out that the people those pushing this 'inner circle' narrative are referring to the documentary makers. Who no one knows about either, although they DID get waivers signed. Those in the 'inner circle' were not the two men.

So, the reality is what? No one is now allowed to bring out a phone during the speeches except officially approved ones? How does that work in a public spot.

So no. There is a huge weight being 'carried' on those sentences saying the men were in the 'inner circle'.

And again, why did Jean Hatchet even have to make that implied accusation if she was not trying to slyly stir the pot.

All this venom is just making feel even more estranged from the left. Deal with the beam in your own eye please (and I'm an atheist not evengelical adjacent)

thanks for explaining 🙂 I agree

Oh for fuck's sake, I couldn't get past Mosley being invoked.

has Posie given many opinions about Islam? I thought it was because she saw seven-year-old girls walking past her house on the way to school wearing a hijab. And she disagreed. For the reasons that many people do.

is there anything else?

All this venom is just making feel even more estranged from the left.

That. It is becoming the case that I can't put a sheet of paper between the left's misogyny, homophobia and authoritarian loathing for anyone not like them or doing exactly what they say, and the TRAs. They're disappearing into a homogenous group.

And I'm not interested: it's women's existence, rights and equality, gay existence rights and equality, child safeguarding and a country free of extremist quasi religious nutjobbery led by a self appointed, madly intolerant elite that bothers me.

You're brave!

authoritarian loathing for anyone not like them or doing exactly what they say

Yes. When feminist websites have a whole page listing the sins of a woman who is fighting to support the areas where women and girl's rights are in conflict with males seeking access to those rights and protections, and cannot recognise their own bullying tactics, what you say is true.

I think one of the reasons why KJK is so appealing to women is that she demands nothing of them. They are free to turn up and speak of they chose too. She doesn't care about your opinion anything else but this one issue.

The left wing feminists fanning the flames of fascist accusations demand not only that you care about this but prove you're the right kind of feminist by aligning yourself with the correct side of the political spectrum.

The left have told me they don't want my vote, my views on biological sex and the rights that arise from that reality are abhorrent to them. They have done nothing to stem the tide of abuse against women in their political parties and in some instances have branded some women with unimpeachable left wing credentials as a hate group and now I'm told I'm fascist adjacent for adopting a, "fuck you then" attitude.

The left is all take and no give, KJK is not.

Are they really all left wing activists - in the true sense of the word?

Or are these all just trans activists? Many who would be left / right on other issues.

I'm not sure people really understand what left wing means anymore. (I don't mean you, I mean in general).

yep. Posie’s perfectly reasonable reservations about the hijab, and more specifically to the veiling of children were, iirc, more or less the same (albeit more instinctual and visceral than intellectual) as those in this incredible 2015 Guardian article by Yasmin Alibhai-Brown (herself a Shia Muslim):

extract:

It is complicated: veils for me represent both religious arrogance and subjugation; they both desexualise and fervidly sexualise. Women are primarily seen as sexual creatures whose hair and bodies incite desire and disorder in the public space. The claim that veils protect women from lasciviousness and disrespect carries an element of self-deception. I have been at graduation ceremonies where shrouded female students have refused to shake the hand of the chancellor. Veiled women have provoked confrontations over their right to wear veils, in courts, at schools and in colleges and workplaces. But I regard their victories as a rejection of social compromise.
^^
Of even more concern are young Muslim lives. Little girls are being asked to don hijabs and jilbabs, turned into sexual beings long before puberty. You can even buy stretchy baby hijabs with fake Calvin Klein and Versace logos.
^^
Like a half-naked woman, a veiled female to me represents an affront to female dignity, autonomy and potential. Both are marionettes, and have internalised messages about femaleness. A woman in a full black cloak, her face and eyes masked walked near to where I was sitting in a park recently, but we could not speak. Behind fabric, she was more unapproachable than a fort. She had a baby girl in a pushchair. Her young son was running around. Will the girl be put into a hijab, then a jilbab? Will the son expect that of his sister and wife one day? To never have the sun warm your face, the breeze through your hair – is that what God wants? Whatever happened to sisterhood?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/20/muslim-woman-veil-hijab

The left wing feminists fanning the flames of fascist accusations demand not only that you care about this but prove you're the right kind of feminist by aligning yourself with the correct side of the political spectrum.

Indeed. And that really puts me off. The constant banging on about the patriarchy without pause to consider that the way this is communicated is often alienating to women. The majority of women have males in their lives that they care for deeply and observe that taking such a defensive stance in every argument is not conducive to discussing issues. Julie Bindell is persuasive when she speaks and has solid credentials in fighting for women. But when the P word is mentioned again and again I watch men and women switch off. I think this is the kind of issue that Posie Parker highlights. The only way to make things better is for 2 sexes to work together. The only way to raise the next generations to appreciate there can be a different and better way is consider the needs of both. There is a lot of man hating going on in feminist circles and they will fail in their objectives because of it.

Yes, I think this absolutely nails it for me too.

Frankly I'll take Posie any time.

@Datun Posie Parker's tweets outlined here: womansplaceuk.org/2022/06/22/womans-place-and-posie-parker/
I think this is the exhaustive list of complaints against her until recent events took over.

Posie's livestream is worth watching as she gives her take on all of this. In the first few minutes she explains why she's not a feminist: because why would I ally myself with such a toxic, woman-hating movement?

Exactly.

Sorry, meant to include the link -

It’s not just online platforms though. Political parties, stonewall, as I mentioned above have also been taken over by entryists. People have been very slow to appreciate how entryism works in the internet age.

I was peaked by mumsnet, for which I will be forever grateful, but I am concerned about how many heads are in the sand here about the obvious entryism going on.

it’s all well and good saying in thread after thread about this that it’s all just free speech, or the extreme right wing might be right on some things, or intellectualising it all up the wazoo. It isn’t going to stop the parasites coming.

No one's going to take over Posie Parker, ffs. Watch the video I linked and see if you can work out who is going to take her over and how?

The left-wing feminists have already been corrupted by the far left and TRAs.