Kellie Jay Keen and Tucker Carlson of Fox News

[concernedfriend500]

I used to admire Kellie Jay Keen for her staunch defence of women's rights and her refusal to bow down to the bullies. But I'm so over her now. Last night I watched one of her YouTube videos and she praised Tucker Carlson to the skies, saying what what a good guy he is. For those of you who don't know, Carlson is a right wing troll who has been accused of being a white supremacist. He presents an insanely popular talk show on US Fox News, on which KJL has appeared on several times. Carlson also pushes the "great replacement" theory and no-one with progressive principles should have anything to do with him, let alone normalise his racism. My guess is that KJK has swallowed the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" line and is going down a dangerous rabbit hole. But I'm out.

I don't see the demand for the exclusion of trans women as significantly different from the demands for the exclusion of any other minority group.

I knew you were going to use that argument. Trans women are male, that is the reason for exclusion, they don't change their sex as that is impossible. As you profess to care about exclusion of minority groups do tell how you square the exclusion of women from minority groups when you include males into female single sex services and spaces, let alone women who for various other reasons will also be excluded from the very spaces and services that were designed for their use?

”I don't see the demand for the exclusion of trans women as significantly different from the demands for the exclusion of any other minority group.”

Do you even know which minority groups will be excluded because they can’t share facilities used by transwomen?

I don't see the demand for the exclusion of trans women as significantly different from the demands for the exclusion of any other minority group.

Men are excluded from single sex spaces and yet as you mentioned, men and trans women rape so what is the difference between them?

Why would be exclude one and not the other?

Why refer to absolutely clear data as stereotypes?

Do you “stereotype” August in the UK as having a higher average temperature than January, or do you just know that it’s true?

It’s depressing how arguments from trans activists so quickly fall into irrelevant semantics rather than remaining honest.

Are you honestly trying to suggest that the data on male offending is not relevant, or not true?

That’s the “+” in LGBTQI+, isn’t it?

They can’t. The offence in England and Wales is defined such that other (equally horrific) acts are described using other terms.

It’s weird how trans activists drag so many conversations around to detailed discussions of rape and serious sexual assault. It’s as though it’s what they really enjoy talking about, whenever they can.

Where did I say that rape is something "men and trans women" do, specifically?

Why can't they share facilities used by trans women?

I don’t think anyone would be surprised if data showed that any particular group with serious psychological conditions differed in where they sit in the crime statistics than people who don’t.

Some conditions will reduce the numbers, some will increase it.

How so? In what way are you asserting that they are women?

Other minority groups are not excluded. Black women are women, disabled women are women, homosexual women are women. All are entitled to use female-only spaces.

Trans “women” being men, aren’t.

Why can't they share facilities used by trans women?

Because transwomen are males, now have a little think about that fact, and it is a fact, and then come to your own conclusions as to why they can't.

Because trans women are men. Your argument by assertion doesn’t work, you need to actually try to explain what you mean by saying that they are women if you want to convince anyone it’s not a lie.

@SeldomHere
My OH works in the police and has worked in sexual assault units. In an unrelated to this conversation yesterday he told me that women can't commit rape.

He's been doing his job for almost 25 years.

Thought I'd just share.

“Why can't they share facilities used by trans women?”

I repeat my question. Do you even know which minority groups will be excluded because they can’t share facilities used by transwomen?

These serious psychological conditions that are regularly cured the minute they leave jail?

Weird huh?

These serious psychological conditions that are regularly cured the minute they leave jail?
Weird huh?

It's truly amazing how these serious psychological conditions manifest themselves at the threat of incarceration and then miraculously disappear on release, there must be a Nobel prize waiting for the person who works out why that would be.

I believe they often appear at the point of arrest these days.

I don’t follow, sorry, what do you mean? Someone who’s trans has a psychological condition, gender dysmorphia.

I believe they often appear at the point of arrest these days.

You quite correct and it cannot be questioned once it is declared, such a strange phenomenon.

No, anyone can say they are trans and if they say that, then they are.

No, that’s maybe your view, and Stonewall’s, but you don’t get to insist that I accept such a ludicrous definition.

No, that’s maybe your view, and Stonewall’s, but you don’t get to insist that I accept such a ludicrous definition

Srsly?

The UK definition of rape is a red herring. We can say sexual assault and it's still something that is perpetrated mainly, though not exclusivly, by men.

But it's also the case that people, men and women, want single sex spaces for privacy as well, which is entorely legitimate. You can't erase sex from human experience, and it impacts out interactions, which is why people sometimes want single sex spaces. Ignoring that is just ignoring an important facet of human experience.

No, that’s maybe your view, and Stonewall’s, but you don’t get to insist that I accept such a ludicrous definition

alison doesn’t accept the ludicrous definition and she doesn’t expect you to either

unfortunately our justice system DOES accept that definition

thats her point