Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 5

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Won't somebody think of the chi-poos?!

swoons

That's wrong though.

In the article that Venn diagram's from, the statement

The British Isles is a collective term used for Great Britain, Ireland and over 6,000 smaller islands which surround them. This includes the likes of Skye, Isle of Man, Isles of Scilly and the Isle of Wight

is factually incorrect.

Off topic, but I don't think the Venn diagram should include the Isle of Man in GB? It something like that? I agree it's confusing.

Anyways, thank you for all of the posts and commentary.

Just to confirm @Emotionalsupportviper it is Alison Jaggar. Very active in scholarly publishing in philosophy in the 1990s, but I think there's stuff on open access now. Academia.edu may have some of her writing.

Ha! Finally got to the end of this thread so far. Some stunning contributions on here - thanks all for keeping those of us in the wrong time zones/too busy up to date with what's happening, and explaining the more esoteric points!

LOVE the Baileys shot allusion - excellent and so true, by all accounts.

I sincerely hope that BC wipes the floor with the opposition witnesses next week and that Allison wins her case.

Cheers @ExMachinaDeus - I'm on Academia.edu. I'll have a look.

I doubt it would be covered. They will have individual Professional indemnity to cover being sued for messing up a clients case. Not sure what the chambers would have as an entity that would cover this? Would they have employers liability that covered barristers if they have argued they are not employees?

That would be ironic.

I was at an agility show yesterday and I think I worked out where the transphobic comments happen.

For each class you’re in you have a number. So yesterday I had dogs running in 6 classes, with a different number for each class. 6 numbers. Easy to get muddled up.

You queue up and tell a volunteer with a clip board/tablet your number. They tick you off their list. At one point, the volunteer said to me, “you don’t look like a John”.

Clear transphobia!

Then, as you enter the ring, another volunteer asks, “Are you Jane?” To double check that the person running is who they think it is.

Its the name you - the handler - are known as by the kennel club. In the same way my dog isn’t Spot. She’s Grassroots Petunia Bananaface.

In all seriousness, if you were struggling with your identity, and your name and gender were in flux, I can see it would feel quite tricky to navigate. Particularly as a teenager. Having to constantly say, “No, I really am John.”

And this is mostly a buildup to say I was walking a course yesterday and guess who I saw in the ring! Talking someone through the course, so speaking a lot, or I probably wouldn’t have noticed. I clocked a female voice from an apparently male body first of all, then twigged who it was. Apparently unscathed by the week. It was weird - bits of my life colliding.

(My girl got a clear round. So it was a good day. And, yes, all names have been changed - she’s not really Bananaface.)

Regarding the recent discussion on men expressing anger in the workplace, that is just as manipulative as tears, if that’s the view we’re taking on this. Anyone who has worked with an angry, aggressive boss (as I have) knows that it makes colleagues tiptoe around them, including other grown men, and avoid difficult conversations that need to be had. What could be more manipulative into cowing colleagues by frightening them? Incidentally, I would not have been at all surprised if I learned that manager was a coercive controller/domestic abuser at home. He was pretty good at turning it on/off when he needed to.

Back on topic, Allison is a trooper and doing women, lesbians and gay men a great service by flushing the inherent misogyny and homophobia of trans ideology out into the sunlight. 💐

Are you entitled to compensation?

We specialise in helping organisations who have been hoodwinked by immoral shysters, helping you to get the compensation you deserve.

Did you find it impossible to concentrate at your desk because of a stream of "progressive" training opportunities from HR?

Did you get disapproving looks because you couldn't keep up with Geoff's neo-pronouns?

Have you got a permanently furrowed brow from trying to make that Genderbread PowerPoint make sense?

If so, we may be able to help!

There is no shame, many many government departments, the NHS, Ftse 100 companies have had Diversity Champion Syndrome and several have actually managed to retain more than 40% of their staff members. Its tough but it can be done.

Get Stonewall out of your policies now!

Don't delay!

Stonewall Lawyers 4U. No win, no fee, no future.

mobile.twitter.com/JustMisogyny/status/1525457644273782784?cxt=HHwWgMC-7aXpwasqAAAA

"And, yes, all names have been changed - she’s not really Bananaface.)"

How very disappointing, Motorina!

and how interesting that you saw that very person at your show!

Brilliant Birdsweepsin.

+1

Just a little reminder, the hearing resumes today at 10am.

Thanks @ickky I'm going to. See if I can actually manage to watch anything today after the tech issues.

Checking in for today!

Still waiting to join, is anyone in yet?

I'm in. Judge has worked out how to mute everyone, which is progress.

I'm in. Raymond the clerk is back.

Discussing access to the bundle for Tribunal Tweets now.

I'm in, but I didn't get the option to mute myself and turn my camera off. Now paranoid that everyone can see me, but unsure how to check!

• and Sex Matters, sorry.

Judge has muted everyone except the participants, Cunt.

What??