Jen Ives LGB Alliance Twitter Row

[GrimDamnFanjo]

twitter.com/jenivescomedian/status/1506429824235151366?s=21

So, trans woman infiltrates conference, row ensues. Who'd have though it?

this appears planned and not a spontaneous outburst anyway.

But the person has explained that they self identify as this being spontaneous.

I thought we just accepted this kind of thing unconditionally while abandoning our own perceptions and inner questions?

Conference designates toilets will be single sex as per the Equality Act provisions, proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

TW shows that they will not abide by the perfectly legal provision as set out in the Equality Act.

TW is wearing a hidden recording device, irrespective of whether it was on or not, the device was concealed and therefore the purpose of it can hardly be claimed as transparent or innocent. We are constantly told that TW would never do anything as egregious as recording or filming in spaces they access, it never happens despite all the evidence that it does.

Person confronts TW about their use of the single sex female only toilets.

Is person doing the confronting:

a) Female
b) A Gender Critical Feminist
c) A Gender Critical Feminist poster from this Board

Yet somehow we are at fault for a TW deliberately and, in my opinion maliciously, refusing to abide by the perfectly legal requirements regarding the toilets at that conference and being called out for it by someone who is none of the above (a), (b) or (c).

@NecessaryScene

also: don't we all have our phones on us when we go to the toilet?

Which is why it's even more important in 2022 to keep men out of women's toilets than in the 20th century. Almost every single male now has a video recording device on them.

Completely.

It's not like people leave their phone at the door before entering the loo.

Absolutely, and women shouldn't have to leave their phones at the door when using facilities for women, because funnily enough, you don't see many stories of women using their phones, spy cameras etc in toilets or changing rooms to record other women and girls getting changing or having a wee.

You don't really see women on social media laughing about invading spaces they're not welcome in to laugh at what people sound like on the toilet either, that's a very male thing, so...

Women having smartphones on them when they go to the ladies toilet is non-issue.

@TVkilledtheRadioStar

It had a microphone on it that was pinned to the bra they were wearing. They shared the recording with KM so they could discuss the sounds women make when they are on the toilet and the differences between men and women on the toilet or between women and trans women (which sounds transphobic ifTWAW). What an invasion of privacy the whole thing was to the poor unsuspecting victims of an act of voyeurism.

What?!

They shared the recording with KM so they could discuss the sounds women make when they are on the toilet and the differences between men and women on the toilet or between women and trans women

They did WHAT?!

I'm sorry, have I missed a large and crucially important piece of information here?

Can we have some sort of confirmation of this claim? It sounds like two different people in conversations with Montgomerie are being conflated. As I understood it, Ives joked about the secret recording device in quite a goady way, but I am not aware of them having the "women in toilets sounds" conversation at that specific time, although that does seem to be a particular area of focus of KM and CursedE.

Quite. How many times have we been told that we are demonising transwomen when we discuss the bad behaviour of one?

Anyway I don't condone any aggressive shouting on any side (but let's at least have some accuracy about the incident please). But the double standards from the TRA side are so clear.

Good point, @DomesticatedZombie, @TVkilledtheRadioStar.

2 year penalty for voyeurism and it seems to me (INAL) that JI said that there was a concealed wire for recording covertly at the conference, and KM discussed toilet noises recorded of women who were unaware.

Oh, I was so looking forward to seeing Jen at the Fringe.

www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/voyeurism

I'm sorry, have I missed a large and crucially important piece of information here?

No, I think (if I'm following the tweets correctly) that this is two different incidents.

1. Recent: Jen records herself at the conference and says she had the device off in the toilets. She was alleged to be rude to everyone and particularly mean to to this autistic bloke when he confronted her about using the loos- which sparked his aggressive rant.

She hasn't released (unless I missed them) the other recording which might demonstrate she was not abusive to him, just the one of him ranting.

1. Previously Jen has made comments about listening in on women in toilets, not recording them.

It just shows that, if ever proof were required, that despite all the rhetoric from politicians (particularly Labour ones) that they will uphold the Equality Act and the single sex exemptions within it, there are TW who will completely ignore those exceptions, have no qualms about doing so and care not one jot for the women whose rights and spaces they are riding roughshod over and disrupting.

That smells rather a lot like male entitlement and misogyny.

Any male joking about invading women's spaces and listening to women's sounds as they go to the toilet is utterly grim. If they then joke about wearing a wire and imply that they might have worn it into the toilet, doubly so.

And that is how I remember all this "breaking news" from Twitter in Nov 2021.

I didn't realise Jen had done it too. I just remembered KM and CE doing it. Well,that's creepy.

Funny thing is - if Jen had offered to be a speaker at the conference and answer questions explaining her position they'd probably have said yes.

But that would mean having to defend your arguments.

@donquixotedelamancha

I'm sorry, have I missed a large and crucially important piece of information here?

No, I think (if I'm following the tweets correctly) that this is two different incidents.

1. Recent: Jen records herself at the conference and says she had the device off in the toilets. She was alleged to be rude to everyone and particularly mean to to this autistic bloke when he confronted her about using the loos- which sparked his aggressive rant.

She hasn't released (unless I missed them) the other recording which might demonstrate she was not abusive to him, just the one of him ranting.

1. Previously Jen has made comments about listening in on women in toilets, not recording them.

The conference was in October 2021 so not that recent. I can only assume that this is all news again due to the videos surfacing.

The incident is discussed at the time on Mumsnet on this thread. Former MNer Floralbunting was there.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4375185-LGB-Alliance-Conference-21-Oct?pg=6

The reason Jen looks so calm in the video is that she is getting EXACTLY what she wanted. Jen is a professional troll.

Well said.

Joking about making recordings in women's toilets just...says a lot about these people and what they think about women's discomfort.

And that's the second time that I know of that Katy Montgomerie has joined in with such joking.

The reason Jen looks so calm in the video is that she is getting EXACTLY what she wanted.

Agree, the whole episode was clearly all a power trip on Jen Ives’ part.

Attending a meeting of a group that Jen believes is anti-trans = "Look at me, I think this is an event where trans people aren’t welcome, but I’m going to come in anyway and you can’t stop me."

Using the female toilets despite the conference organisers legitimately designating the toilets as single-sex = "Look at me, I know everyone has been asked to respect this as a female-only space, but I’m going to use it anyway even though I’m not female and you can’t stop me."

Taking a clandestine recording device into the toilets with past form for publicly mocking the noises females make when using toilets = "Look at me, I can take away females’ dignity and privacy if I choose to, and you’ll never know when I might be recording."

Baiting a conference attendee by calling him an offensive name = "Look at me, I can push your buttons and make you lose your temper so that I look like the victim."

Jen looks so calm in that video because Jen is the one in control, and has achieved exactly what Jen set out to achieve.

Joking about making recordings in women's toilets just...says a lot about these people and what they think about women's discomfort.

It really does.

Here again is an account from a woman about how it made her feel:

And now I know that there was a male, wearing a 'wire', boasting about visiting those toilets, specifically looking for things to record and publish online.

It's disgusting. This boundary-breaking rape-culture behaviour couldn't be a bigger sign of male socialisation. But nobody sees it. Observers are so okay with it that they don't even stop to think about what effect that person being in there in the first place could have on women especially women experiencing some kind of vulnerability- women with stories of abuse, newly-come out lesbian women, differently-abled women, or absolutely any woman at all. Because all women have the right to say NO!

"Look at me, I can take away females’ dignity and privacy if I choose to, and you’ll never know when I might be recording."

This is the heart of it. Women can have no expectations of their privacy and dignity being respected, ever. It's purely a dominance display.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

"Look at me, I can take away females’ dignity and privacy if I choose to, and you’ll never know when I might be recording."

This is the heart of it. Women can have no expectations of their privacy and dignity being respected, ever. It's purely a dominance display.

Yep.

But they are just like women and all they want to do is pee and they are the most oppressed and vulnerable. Yeah right, this is male supremacy no more, no less.