Scottish census decision

[IsitM]

"The Scottish Court of Session has ruled in favour of the Scottish Government in the judicial review of guidance to accompany "the sex question” in the 2022 Scottish census

We are disappointed with the judgment and will be requesting an urgent appeal"

From FPFW

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1494315619877109781?s=20&t=3b061zOq4q3XIBtz7MWV5A

I just don’t understand any woman nodding along to this…

I’m imagining my grandma and her Bezzie Agnes having a conversation…

Eeeee - so I hear yer Malky says he’s a wumman noo?
Aye, says tae call him Maureen no less…
Maureen? Is that no a lassie’s name?
Aye - mind he says he’s a lassie noo…
Aye well, he’d better start doing the washing up then.

What was the campaign for the E&W census that was in response to the data captured by it? Is that feasible for the Scottish census?

I've a vague recollection of requesting paper forms rather than going online, and a letter to attach which limited the use/interpretation of the data contained in the completed census.

Are there any other feasible ideas on civil actions citizens can take to register protests, beyond not filling it in/facing the fine attached (ironic that I'm thinking of the sanction of a fine, when the court just agreed that 'good faith' is enough of a defence to lie in the census).

Gutted
Actually could cry.
Watching here and on Twitter for a plan for us to do to show we strongly disagree.

All census data will be crap now.
So embarrassed for Scotland

Well In this house every man will identify as a woman. In 100 years they'll look at the Scottish census and wonder why there were so many women called Michael and Hamish (who were men in 2011).

If you're going to fuck around with the basic fundamentals of life and humanity then democracy and the political processes that power it aren't worth the paper they're written on. I am embarrassed to be living in this land of 'enlightenment'.

What an enormous waste of energy and money this Census will be if this decision doesn't get overturned.

What a fucking day

Can’t you give your ‘identity’ name - because we don’t want any nasty deadnaming taking place.

Mine would be ‘WhichIdiotThouhtAllowingGenderToBeFeelz Kong’ pronouns: WTF/???

Some inspiration as to what to do with the now pointless census -

www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/No-Vote-No-Census-1911-Census-Protests/

www.findmypast.co.uk/blog/discoveries/suffragettes-in-the-1911-census

Gutted. I'll be protesting via the census form. Tell them to stick it up their arse.

This is shocking news, it splits Scotland from the rest of the U.K. for one - the data will no longer be unified and reliable but if this is what the SNP want to go down in history for then let it bite them in the arse at the voting booth.

Agreed. It's crazy. It's obviously absurd in its own right, but it's particularly absurd to have census data in Scotland that uses a different definition of a fundamental demographic than that used in England. It means that future researchers will no longer be able to analyse the data to draw UK-wide conclusions on, for example, how old the female population is, or what jobs they do, or how many children they have on average, or what religion they are - or indeed anything at all relating to women.

What word would the judge use to describe people, and animals, sex if 'sex' no longer describes their sex? How does he define 'lived sex'?

Is refusing to complete the census against the law? I think this would be the simplest form of protest but I’m not sure on the implications?

@Manderleyagain

Tensionwheels - i don't know if that was the case here, but sometimes all the arguments have actually been put in writing, and the oral stuff is just on certain points. Fingers crossed!

@TensionWheelsCooIHeels @Manderleyagain

Yes the written arguments submitted in advance are posted on the crowdfunder, if you still have the appetite after hearing the result. I thought the reference to how the sex question data is used for equality monitoring was a killer point, as it links census data to the Equality Act, which they ruled on in the FWS case last week. But I'm told the judges didn't get why equality monitoring was being mentioned or what this case has to do with the EA.

I am amazed they could decide sex can mean "lived sex" in the census. We will know their reasoning perhaps tomorrow. The intersex point made me rage too. So ignorant and daft, and I know those affected feel affronted by it.

What Joanna means, I think, is that the 1920 act doesn't define the word sex (of course not why would you think you had to) but that the equality act 2010 explicitly does, I forget that exact wording but says, female/male of any age (or something like that)

I could cry , what a fucking joke my country has become.
I won’t Wheest either, we are plotting the best course of action now.

If not about equality or medical need, what did he think it was for? Ensuring sufficient provision of hair extensions?

www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/contact-us/

Contact us, the say…

The census is actually pointless and a waste of almost 500 million. Its out of date as soon as the data is collected and no government departmental statistic actually uses it. But yes, have a crowd funder about the defintion of 'sex' because fighting for minutiae on pointless surveys really is help feminism.

If its 'all about funding' then why are so many services underfunded? Why do we rely upon charity for refuges? Why does every hospital also have a charity arm? Prisoner well being rely upon services like PACT or the Prison Reform Trust. What am I saying, these are inclusive organisations and GCs want them defunded.

@Blackandwhitehorse

Is refusing to complete the census against the law? I think this would be the simplest form of protest but I’m not sure on the implications?

For the last England and Wales census, the penalty for not completing it was a criminal record and a fine of £1K.

I forget that exact wording but says, female/male of any age (or something like that)

You are correct.

Will there be paper forms? It might be helpful to request that...

What's the point of collecting information for Equality monitoring and not sticking to the protected characteristics as defined in the specific piece of legislation which covers equality discrimination law?

derrywitch thanks, good points. I might have a look but I might just wait for the judgement.
There's so much misinformation about dsd's bring swallowed down in the judiciary. I remember ridiculous arguments in the first round if the forstater case.

If the judgement is based on false information the can this be appealed again?

For Women Scotland are suggesting ordering a paper copy of the census, they are going to consider how women can protest lawfully via the form.

I got a paper copy of the English census, I ordered it before the court verdict I think.

How many women are there in Scotland? Don't know
How many men? Don't know
How many 'transwomen'? Don't know
How many 'transmen'? Don't know

What percentage of the female population are under 40? Are mothers? Are in paid employment? Don't know

What is the point of the census if it doesn't give us usable data?

How could the judges not see the link to equalities legislation?

I despair for Scotland- it is on its way down a deep and damaging rabbit hole.