Scottish census decision

[IsitM]

"The Scottish Court of Session has ruled in favour of the Scottish Government in the judicial review of guidance to accompany "the sex question” in the 2022 Scottish census

We are disappointed with the judgment and will be requesting an urgent appeal"

From FPFW

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1494315619877109781?s=20&t=3b061zOq4q3XIBtz7MWV5A

3% of census forms are not returned. So thats 12 times the nimber of trans people there are.

How many women in Scotland? Well I'd go check council tax records rather than a ten yearly snapshot becuase council tax records get updated whenever a household changes. Work and tax? Ask the tax office probably, under 40? Council again. In answer to your ownquestion

No one uses census data. Why would a government department plan a picnic based on a ten year snapshot when it has almost live data at its fingertips. When people quote the trans prison population, you think they are relying upon the census? so funny

@DisgustedofManchester

3% of census forms are not returned. So thats 12 times the nimber of trans people there are.

How many women in Scotland? Well I'd go check council tax records rather than a ten yearly snapshot becuase council tax records get updated whenever a household changes. Work and tax? Ask the tax office probably, under 40? Council again. In answer to your ownquestion

No one uses census data. Why would a government department plan a picnic based on a ten year snapshot when it has almost live data at its fingertips. When people quote the trans prison population, you think they are relying upon the census? so funny

It's interesting isn't it, how this completely pointless and irrelevant exercise was seen as such an important thing to change. Bit like the GRA really.

Part of my work involves dealing with local authority strategies, policies and planning documents for all their services.

They absolutely do use figures from the Census.

Thank you to FPFW for what they attempted to do.

Good luck to all those who intend to protest. I hope that coordinated action will be taken.

#WomenWontWheest

SNP are out of their baffled little minds.

Ok. Whatever. Co ordinated protest time. Because I am not contributing to the massive taxpayer spend on collating and processing data that will be fictional, pointless and useless and nothing but a massive gesture of woke wankery and blindness.

I will not spend time providing data for this. Or if I have to fill the form in, then I get to make up whatever I want as my preferred reality, and it's going to involve unicorns, the fairies in the garden, my three million pound daily income and my age as eighteen months old. Not playing this game. Not paying for it either.

@Blessex

Ladies. What would the suffragettes have done?

Believe me, I've thought about that this is going to end with one of us having to get under a race horse.

'Right side of history' - who would want to live where these madmen are busy dragging us?

@DisgustedofManchester

3% of census forms are not returned. So thats 12 times the nimber of trans people there are.

How many women in Scotland? Well I'd go check council tax records rather than a ten yearly snapshot becuase council tax records get updated whenever a household changes. Work and tax? Ask the tax office probably, under 40? Council again. In answer to your ownquestion

No one uses census data. Why would a government department plan a picnic based on a ten year snapshot when it has almost live data at its fingertips. When people quote the trans prison population, you think they are relying upon the census? so funny

Why on earth would you check council tax records?

I've been responsible for paying this in Scotland for over 25 years. Never once has this included giving information on household members.

The council knows one name only - that of the account holder. Which does not even have to be anyone living there. (I know because I have been handling council tax for an elderly family member and the account is in my name, not theirs.)

It also, funnily enough has never included giving information on the sex of householders and residents because why on earth would that matter?

(If you can apply for council tax discounts and rebates, you may on occasion give the names of those claiming but those names are not kept as a permanent record, because they only ever matter for the council tax year.)

Why on earth would you check council tax records?

It's almost as if no real thought was applied to that post at all, and someone was just trying to think up something to say...

I am so sorry for all of you in Scotland. I would definitely be submitting everyone’s gender as female in my house - perfectly legal and increases resources for women and girls.

@Lovelyricepudding

Will there be paper forms? It might be helpful to request that...

Definitely request paper forms. If, as the court says, information is given “ in good faith “ then I will self ID as a man on that day, and as a “ believer in biology” as my religion.

No one uses census data.

Has anyone told the ONS?

They seem to think it'a quite important, it will be a relief to their staff I'm sure, we can tell them not to bother in future.

"Here are some examples of some of the main users of census information and what they use it for.
Local authorities and other public bodies
The census is important to local authorities across England and Wales. It is also vital to the government and many other public sector organisations.
This is because it gives them the information they need to:
• develop policies
• plan and run services, such as schools, health services, roads and libraries
• decide how to allocate funds to make sure public funds get to where they are needed most
For example, census data showing how many people work in different jobs and industries are used to develop new job and training policies. Information on how people travel to work and how many cars they have contributes to planning roads and transport.
Businesses
Lots of companies use census information to help them understand their customers. For example, a supermarket chain might use census population data to help decide where to open a new store.
Voluntary organisations
Voluntary organisations often rely on census data to get information about the communities they are working in. They may also use census data as evidence to support any applications they make for funding.
Academics and students
Academics such as university professors often use census data to support research that they are working on. Students use the data in a similar way to get the information they need for coursework and dissertations.
The public and genealogists
We can all use old census records for researching our family history – they are released to the public 100 years after the census took place. The records provide a fantastic source of information we can use to find out more about our ancestors."

www.ons.gov.uk/census/censustransformationprogramme/aboutthecensus

@DisgustedofManchester

3% of census forms are not returned. So thats 12 times the nimber of trans people there are.

How many women in Scotland? Well I'd go check council tax records rather than a ten yearly snapshot becuase council tax records get updated whenever a household changes. Work and tax? Ask the tax office probably, under 40? Council again. In answer to your ownquestion

No one uses census data. Why would a government department plan a picnic based on a ten year snapshot when it has almost live data at its fingertips. When people quote the trans prison population, you think they are relying upon the census? so funny

No one uses the data? Fantastic, every single household can put whatever they want in it.

Warlocks, witches, fairies, uncle Tom cobbley, man woman princess, who cares it's a mahoosive waste of time money and paper and every Scottish resident can put any fairy story in it.

You all have disgusted's permission.

And mine, I wish I lived there, I'd be making up some tall tales.

When is the census day?

I can probably squeeze a couple of dozen women into my house. You are, I think, supposed to count anyone there that day. Very happy to do that.

I am not really thinking this through (long day at work) but there is scope for a hell of a lot of guests up here.

@Cismyfatarse

When is the census day?

I can probably squeeze a couple of dozen women into my house. You are, I think, supposed to count anyone there that day. Very happy to do that.

I am not really thinking this through (long day at work) but there is scope for a hell of a lot of guests up here.

What does 'in your house' mean anyway. Society has moved on and the Internet means I am interacting with everyone here in my house ergo you are all in my house. So how many of you identify as women? It is mumsnet so I take that to be everyone here - which is how many hundred thousand?

the Internet means I am interacting with everyone here in my house ergo you are all in my house.

Yup, words evolve and any old cobblers flies, and I definitely have a deep inner conviction which apparently wholly trumps reality, so go for it. If reality doesn't matter, what the hell. We might as well all enjoy it.

What does 'in your house' mean anyway. Society has moved on and the Internet means I am interacting with everyone here in my house ergo you are all in my house. So how many of you identify as
women? It is mumsnet so I take that to be everyone here - which
is how many hundred thousand

10 million unique users every month I think, divide that by 30 and on any given day that's how many your interacting with.
That's a fuck lot of women to add to the Scottish census.

Your gonna need a bigger census paper.

@Brefugee

I am very confused by the desire for there to be only one category - and that if you identify as a woman you tick that. But if you're a transwoman, that surely can't be in your best interests? How can you target funds for transwomen if you don't know how many there are?

Same with crime stats. We hear that trans identified people are murdered at a rate of knots then we hear that actually, no they aren't (since 2012? can't remember when the last one was - be clear one is one too many, but the same goes for all murders) and then we can't tell anyway because they have been logged as women (or men for transmen)

I am finding it very difficult to wrap my head around.
Why not have a box for sex one for gender and have done with it? what am i missing?

There is a question on gender too. But trans people want to be able to answer the sex question the same way as their gender identity. This makes them feel more like what their real or true self is or something along those lines. I'm sure one of our regular posters can tell us why they want the sex question to mean something other than biological sex. However if a trans persons needs everyone around them on every single form (even confidential ones) to validate their true identity then surely this means they don't believe in their true self?

Link to FPFW statement on judgement

This reads to me as though that's it - no further challenge.

They say:
“We will consider very carefully the full judgment when it is issued tomorrow before making any further comment or decisions.“

It's interesting isn't it, how this completely pointless and irrelevant exercise was seen as such an important thing to change. Bit like the GRA really.

My thoughts exactly!

So in reality two questions on gender identity (one masquerading as a question on sex) and no actual question in relation to biological sex.

Looks like FPFW are considering appealing to the Supreme Court. I so hope they do!

@Signalbox

So in reality two questions on gender identity (one masquerading as a question on sex) and no actual question in relation to biological sex.

It's not even that. The sex question will lead to some trans people putting their sex and some their gender identity. The gender question is voluntary so there's no telling how many people will answer it. And it just asks whether you're trans - it won't clarify what sex or what gender the person is.

Remember the census is meant to include everyone in your house on that particular day so that leaves plenty of room for interesting answers...

@Rhannion

Remember the census is meant to include everyone in your house on that particular day so that leaves plenty of room for interesting answers...

As lovely further up thread pointed out, words no longer have any true meaning, therefore mumsnet is your house and you could honestly scan through all the names in any threads you've looked at/posted on/scrolled on by and stick them all in your census. Make up any kind of shit about them, it's not like it matters.

I would love to see my username in a census btw? Make up any old shite about me, I'm as happy to be childfree or i have 17 kids all adopted, I'm 32 or 101 years old, etc.