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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Oh sod off David Lammy!

197 replies

deadleaves · 28/09/2021 10:18

labourlist.org/2021/09/anti-trans-members-are-dinosaurs-who-want-to-hoard-rights-says-lammy/?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Its hard to describe how angry this article made me. I am sick to the back teeth of the lies and slurs being told about women who want to protect absolutely basic rights and safeguarding.

Dinosaurs who want to 'hoard' rights. That's the contempt that the Labour party has for women in prisons who are assaulted and intimidated by the males they are now being housed with. Dinosaurs who want to hoard rights are traumatised women who are too scared to access refuges that males might be in. Dinosaurs who want to hoard rights are women athletes who reject being told to 'be kind' and hand over what they have worked their hold life for, to males who have an inbuilt biological advantage.

Women really aren't entitled to anything but insults when they try to speak up for themselves in the Labour party. Ironic really that we are called Dinosaurs when the Labour party is clearly reverting to its unionist roots when unions wanted to keep women in their place to protect male members advantage.

But most disgusting is the utterly unself-aware and hypocritical way Lammy advocates for positive discrimination for black men, a group of people he can understand face disadvantage (being one), so he wants to increase HIS social groups rights rights whilst gleefully not only removing women's basic rights but throwing insults at us for objecting to this.

That's it. Not only will I not vote for Labour again but I am going to become an active campaigner against them. They are beyond disgusting in their utter misogyny.

OP posts:
Onyernelly · 28/09/2021 16:01

I'm sorry, I guess I was supposed to be hoarding our rights but I fear the only one I've managed to hang onto is the right to remain silent

I feel very bitter.

Jaysmith71 · 28/09/2021 16:03

@Ghostsintheshelf

Im happy to share the rights to single-sex spaces.
But those spaces don't belong to you. They are public facilities used by religious conservatives, victims, survivors, children, adults and children with special needs, etc.
Ghostsintheshelf · 28/09/2021 16:04

I think you've misunderstood me. Single-sex.

Iggly · 28/09/2021 16:08

How do we get across the simple message that women’s rights are being infringed here?

We can have practical solutions to help resolve the issue of trans rights. However, for whatever reason, the solutions offered do not protect those of others who also need protecting?

I think the problem is that people are suggesting that giving an effective free for all and destroying women’s safe spaces is fine for a solution to the issue of trans rights. But it is not fine.

This isn’t about vilifying a whole swathe of people and accusing every single trans women of being rapists in a dress. It’s about saying that this dismantling provides cover for those who would present danger to women. It also removes women’s choices - women who should retain their choices for whatever reason.

The other thing that fucks me off is denying our biological reality.

There are two biological sexes. It’s not a sliding scale, there are two. There are conditions out there which derive from one of those two sexes, it doesn’t make it a scale.

ErrolTheDragon · 28/09/2021 16:16

@Ghostsintheshelf

I think you've misunderstood me. Single-sex.
You mean you're happy to share single sex spaces with everyone of the relevant single sex, I hope you mean? Quite so.

This isn't a right we can 'hoard' or alternatively choose to 'share' with people of the opposite sex. It's a right we either have, or don't have.
And in most of the cases which matter, we have already lost our rights.
Single sex prisons - gone
Single sex hospital wards - gone
Single sex refuges - mostly gone
Single sex rape crisis services - mostly gone
Single sex sports - many gone.

SpindleWorld · 28/09/2021 16:23

I'm trying to make sense of it in my head in one short unapologetic rebuttal sentence.

Human rights belong to women; and they're not for the taking.

CreepingDeath · 28/09/2021 16:57

@Ghostsintheshelf

I think you've misunderstood me. Single-sex.
I've misunderstood aswell - do you mean you're happy to keep them single sex or not?
NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 28/09/2021 17:01

Pretty sure I've understood @Ghostsintheshelf - you're happy to share the right to single-sex spaces; you're happy for everyone - male or female, trans or not - to be able to access single-sex spaces in accordance with their own sex. Right?

Ghostsintheshelf · 28/09/2021 17:40

@NellWilsonsWhiteHair

Pretty sure I've understood *@Ghostsintheshelf* - you're happy to share the right to single-sex spaces; you're happy for everyone - male or female, trans or not - to be able to access single-sex spaces in accordance with their own sex. Right?
Yes, exactly.
Jaysmith71 · 28/09/2021 17:53

I apologise unreservedly for misconstruction.

Meantime, enjoy this:

twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1442750704645517314

Ratonastick · 28/09/2021 18:03

This one has infuriated me beyond all. I rate David Lammy (or at least I did) but this one has been hideously revealing. Under it all he believes that men gave women their rights and men can take them away again and if we don’t like it we are wrong. It’s classic misogyny, men and the default and women are a sub-version of humans.

Honestly, I’m a soft leftie who bumbles along being cross with the tories. I consider myself GC and keep an eye on the discussion but have largely been convinced that this whole trans thing will burn itself out. But the pronouncements from this labour conference has me ready to riot. I can’t be the only one.

deadleaves · 28/09/2021 18:38

Under it all he believes that men gave women their rights and men can take them away again and if we don’t like it we are wrong

Absolutely.

He clearly thinks women are uppity cos we think we have some sort of entitlement to rights of our own! Silly us! Don't we know that rights only belong to black men, cos then positive discrimination is just dandy. Not for women though. Oh no! Make room in your prison cell for that rapist's penis you uppity rightless woman!

OP posts:
HatsOnHatsOff · 28/09/2021 18:47

Yes, well put deadleaves . Silly me for not realising I only had rights because men said I could, and only until they decided to take them back.

Deliriumoftheendless · 28/09/2021 19:23

@ErrolTheDragon

I'm sorry, I guess I was supposed to be hoarding our rights but I fear the only one I've managed to hang onto is the right to remain silent.
Now if you were ErrolTheDinosaur, maybe, eh?
DysonSphere · 28/09/2021 19:39

@colouringindoors

This AND Starmer AND the Lancet this week have made me soooo angry and soooo sad. Hard not to feel sometimes that most men hate women, or not hate, just don't care about their webeing one tiny miniscule bit. Fkn misigynist bastards.
I feel you. It's completely demoralising. The Lancet cover almost made me cry. It actually hurt.
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 29/09/2021 00:14

I'm sorry, I guess I was supposed to be hoarding our rights but I fear the only one I've managed to hang onto is the right to remain silent.

Star
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 29/09/2021 00:23

From the twitter thread Jaysmith posted at twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1442750704645517314 -- Tottenham CLP has voted in favour of three motions defending women's sex-based rights and almost unanimously sent a motion to conference expressing concern about the increasing abuse towards women in the party. He knows what we think & once agreed with us. Is this just posturing?

Well done, Tottenham CLP. But this looks extraordinary to me. Is it usual for an MP to contradict their CLP in public so insultingly?

GrimDamnFanjo · 29/09/2021 08:24

Crikey he is shouting on R4 now!!!

TabbyStar · 29/09/2021 08:25

I'm listening too incredulously. He's basically saying it's not an important issue! Nick (Robinson?) did splendidly at holding him to account.

lanadelgrey · 29/09/2021 08:27

Members of the Tottenham CLP spoke last night. He refuses to meet them, even when resolutions were passed.
It does come up on doorsteps, glad to see him rattled.

MistandMud · 29/09/2021 08:27

‘This never comes up on the doorstep’, hmm?

I think he’s wrong about that.

MistandMud · 29/09/2021 08:28

‘We ignore this any time it does come up on the doorstep’ is what he actually means.

GrimDamnFanjo · 29/09/2021 08:31

He really lost it. Refused to answer the question. What an arse.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 29/09/2021 08:37

Who lost it? Lammy was on the radio? Being shouty and unreasonable?

Must be his testosterone. Men can be such slaves to their hormones, the poor loves.

RainingYetAgain · 29/09/2021 08:39

The only reason it doesn't come up on my doorstep is that no one from Labour or any otber party knocks on my door at election time or any other time.
Nick Robinson really rattled him. "BBC are focusing on things nobody is interested in"
I suppose you are right David, it's only women affected and we don't matter.